sharkmouth Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) As I prepare my MiG-23BN build, I see that Trumpeter included a sprue of air to air missiles and instruct one to consider them in their spurious load diagram. Since the manuals I came across for the ex-Egyptian MiG-23BN were in English, I didn't read through them and now must go through my attic hoping I kept a copy. In these manuals, I do not recall any mention of air to air missiles. Sources state otherwise. Keeping in mind that there is the MiG-27 series as well as the Soviet MiG-23B (separate from the BN), I am not surprised to read about AA weapons for self defense but haven't found any for the exported MiG-23BN. So, I've been looking at a lot of photographs lately trying to determine the differences between the MiG-23B and MiG-23BN (export). I've seen photographs of the MiG-27M with R-73 on the port intake pylon, MiG-23B with R-3, or R-13, on the starboard wing pylon, but nothing else. A Cuban video (they use the MiG-23BN) states that the aircraft can be armed with 6 R-60 missiles (which would mean dual launchers on the wing pylons and single launchers on the forward fuselage pylons. However, the MiG-23BN monograph published by Hema (of then Czechoslovakia) states that guns were used for air to air defense but no mention of any air to air missiles. Can anyone point me to an answer? Regards, Edited November 30, 2015 by sharkmouth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 The ground attack version of the MiG-23 can't carry any of the radar guided missiles the A2A version of the MiG-23 could. Other than that, the MiG-23BN/MiG-27 could carry infrared missiles for self protection just as much as the MiG-23 could. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) The ground attack version of the MiG-23 can't carry any of the radar guided missiles the A2A version of the MiG-23 could. Other than that, the MiG-23BN/MiG-27 could carry infrared missiles for self protection just as much as the MiG-23 could. I am aware of this but have been looking for photographs showing missiles on the ground attack variants. I have not found any for the exported MiG-23BN. Yefim Gordon, in the Aerofax book, refers to the MiG-23 & 27 ground attack versions as using the fuselage pylons and, in that book, we see a mock up R-73 on the MiG-27M. Hans Henri Stapfer, in Squadron's MiG-23/27 Flogger in Action, mentions launch rails for the R-60 in two photos, but I only see APU-68 rails for the S-24 rockets. I also have seen a Soviet MiG-23B with R-3 (or R-13) missiles on the wing pylons (note, I am not counting the outer pylons as they are only for fuel tanks on these variants). Have you seen photos of AA missiles on the MiG-23BN as used by the Czechs and Germans? Regards, Edited November 30, 2015 by sharkmouth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Well, looking further into the book and manuals, it seems that the MiG-23BN (as built for export) didn't have the air to air missile capability. The manual, and the Hema book, don't mention any missiles at all. MiG-23/27 Flogger in Action, by Hans Heiri Stapfer, does mention it but doesn't offer any details. Reading the ground attack sections of Yefim Gordon's Aerofax book on the subject, we find mention in the MiG-23B section that infrared missiles were 'tenable' under the front fuselage pylons. Since this variant is designed for the VVS, that seems plausible. In the MiG-23BN section, while mentioning all the export grade electronics used, it seems he copied and pasted the air to air missile section. Much later in the MiG-23BN-99 Upgrade Project section (page 122), he states: "Thanks to a new under fuselage radar pod, R-73, R-13S, and R-3S and air to air guided missiles could be deployed effectively for self defence." With production ending at MMZ No. 30 Znamya Truda in 1985, it can be concluded that the export MiG-23BN didn't have air to air missile capability. Since an upgrade providing that capability was offered in 1999, any photographs showing an export MiG-23BN must take into consideration the air force which sent their aircraft through the upgrade process. Any information to rebut this conclusion? Edited November 30, 2015 by sharkmouth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
172flogger Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) MiG-23B were only small series with Lyulka AL-21 engines (from Su-17 or Su-24) istead of Tumansky R-29. Su-17 has different tail fuselage shape for Lyulka and Tumansky engined variants. But i don´t know if is Lyulka MiG-23B fuselage rear different from standard Tumansky MiG-23MF/BN. Edited December 4, 2015 by 172flogger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 But i don´t know if is Lyulka MiG-23B fuselage rear different from standard Tumansky MiG-23MF/BN. Other than scoops found on each side behind the main gear openings and a cabling duct on the upper fuselage, I did not see any other differences From an excellent 647 walk around photograph series on Scale Models.Ru. Click any of the images to visit this excellent reference. The scoop from the front - The same scoop from the rear - The cable conduit - Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) MiG-23BN/BM was made for export. SSSR used mentioned MiG-23B only for testing. I am not sure Warsaw pact ever used 23BN with AAs...with other MiGs in abundance. I did saw MiG-27D on QRA dutywith doube r-60 launchers on shoulder pylons. It was the only option while regiments air defence assets were moving to MiG-29 if I remember correctly. I also have that photo somewhere.... P Edited December 5, 2015 by Petarvu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) MiG-23BN/BM was made for export. SSSR used mentioned MiG-23B only for testing. I am not sure Warsaw pact ever used 23BN with AAs...with other MiGs in abundance.I did saw MiG-27D on QRA dutywith doube r-60 launchers on shoulder pylons. It was the only option while regiments air defence assets were moving to MiG-29 if I remember correctly. I also have that photo somewhere.... Thanks P. The MiG-23BM is also known as the MiG-27. This comes from several Russian language sources and appears on the plaque of one of the exhibited aircraft. So, it seems that you agree with me, the MiG-23BN didn't have (or at least didn't display) AA missile capability. It is known that later MiG-27 variants did indeed have the capacity of carrying six AA missiles (double launch rails on the wing glove pylons and one each on the intake pylons). Regards, Edited December 5, 2015 by sharkmouth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Don't know which version this is but it has rocket pods and missile rails: both empty but the possibility is there for both a2a and a2g ordnance to be carried at the same time. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Thanks Jari, but this isn't a ground attack version (MiG-23B, MiG-23BM, MiG-23BN, or MiG-27) of the Flogger. Nice photo though. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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