Rob de Bie Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I'm building all stores in 1/48 used for the F-84F in RNLAF service. The conventional bombs used were: AN-M65 (1000 lbs) with M129 conical tail AN-M66 (2000 lbs) with M130 conical tail You can see both in the following picture, fitted with wooden transport rings: The AN-M65 is included in the Monogram 1/48 kit and made in resin by IsraCast. The AN-M66 is available from True Details (48505) and Attack Squadron (48030), fitted with the WW2 style short box tail. Here's a picture of both resin bombs: However both AN-M66s are quite similarly undersize, around 90%, the exact numbers are reported below. That makes me wonder whether my sources are correct - I would think so since they are official manuals. Furthermore I cannot find a single photo of an AN-M66 fitted with a conical tail. Was this a very uncommon postwar weapon? Any experts out there that know something more? Rob - - - - References used for AN-M66: TM-9-1980 / AFM 136-7 'Bombs for Aircraft' (1950). Page 195: body length 71.8 in (38.0 mm). Only discusses box tail versions. OP 2216 'Aircraft Bombs, Fuzes, and Associated Components' (1960), pages 5-24 to 5-30, sketch. TM 9-1325-200 (Army) / TO 11-28 (Air Force) 'Bombs and bomb components' (1966). Page 2-25 reports for the M66 with 'fin assembly M130': length of assembled bomb 116.80 in (61.8 mm) body diameter 23.29 in (12.3 mm), fin span 32.32 in (17.1 mm) - - - - True Details 48505 diameter is 11.2 mm, 91% of the real value (or 83% in cross section area) length is 35.3 mm, 93% of the real value Attack Squadron 48030 diameter 11.3 mm, 92% of the real value (or 84% in cross section area) length is 33.9 mm, 89% of the real value Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 You can added another reference to your list; NAVWEP 00-120-2, page 1-38 dated 1967 shows the M65A1 with a M129 Fin. NAVWEP 00-120-2, page 1-46 dated 1967 shows the M66A2 with a M130 Fin. I think this was a rare configuration due to the box fins (AN-M113A1 for M65 and AN-M116A1 for M66) were plentiful and the M129/M130's were newer and there wasn't that many in inventory. There were thousands of box fins in inventory after WWII so it made sense to use up that stock before using the new fins that there were few in inventory. By the time the box fins started to be depleted, so did the bomb bodies. Just me thinking, I don't have any hard documentation to support it so take what you read with a grain of salt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 19 hours ago, GW8345 said: You can added another reference to your list; NAVWEP 00-120-2, page 1-38 dated 1967 shows the M65A1 with a M129 Fin. NAVWEP 00-120-2, page 1-46 dated 1967 shows the M66A2 with a M130 Fin. I think this was a rare configuration due to the box fins (AN-M113A1 for M65 and AN-M116A1 for M66) were plentiful and the M129/M130's were newer and there wasn't that many in inventory. There were thousands of box fins in inventory after WWII so it made sense to use up that stock before using the new fins that there were few in inventory. By the time the box fins started to be depleted, so did the bomb bodies. Just me thinking, I don't have any hard documentation to support it so take what you read with a grain of salt. Thanks for the reply! Do you know whether that Navy manual is available online? I searched but could not find it. In the mean time I may have found a way to scratch-build the pressed sheet metal fins, more news later. I will probably have to guesstimate the dimensions, since none of the manuals that I have actually shows the M66 + M130 combination. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Rob trying looking here: http://bulletpicker.com/pdf/OP 1280, Aircraft Bombs.pdf#page=73 dimensions for the M129 and M130 tails are there. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Rob de Bie said: Thanks for the reply! Do you know whether that Navy manual is available online? I searched but could not find it. In the mean time I may have found a way to scratch-build the pressed sheet metal fins, more news later. I will probably have to guesstimate the dimensions, since none of the manuals that I have actually shows the M66 + M130 combination. Rob I don't know if the pub is online, I have an old partial paper copy. PM me your e-mail address and I'll scan the pages this weekend and e-mail them to you. The pages have the engineering drawings with dimensions. GW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 On 12/3/2018 at 7:20 AM, Rob de Bie said: Furthermore I cannot find a single photo of an AN-M66 fitted with a conical tail. Was this a very uncommon postwar weapon? Any experts out there that know something more? Rob These look like them: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Finn said: Rob trying looking here: http://bulletpicker.com/pdf/OP 1280, Aircraft Bombs.pdf#page=73 dimensions for the M129 and M130 tails are there. Jari, many thanks for the link! The manual indeed contains some very useful details to build a reasonable accurate M66 with M130 tail. Let the scratchbuilding begin 🙂 Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 12 hours ago, GW8345 said: I don't know if the pub is online, I have an old partial paper copy. PM me your e-mail address and I'll scan the pages this weekend and e-mail them to you. The pages have the engineering drawings with dimensions. GW, thanks for the kind offer! But Jari solved the problem already 🙂 Just to be sure: since you mention 'engineering drawings with dimensions', do you mean these drawings from that manual, or something else? Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 hours ago, Finn said: These look like them: Jari Ah, yes, of course! I hadn't thought about the A-6 using these bombs too. That's one impressive load, five of them - I wonder about the flying range :-) Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said: GW, thanks for the kind offer! But Jari solved the problem already 🙂 Just to be sure: since you mention 'engineering drawings with dimensions', do you mean these drawings from that manual, or something else? Rob The drawings I have show the bomb and fin and are not the same as the ones you posted. It's up to you if you want them, I'm fine either way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 24 minutes ago, GW8345 said: The drawings I have show the bomb and fin and are not the same as the ones you posted. It's up to you if you want them, I'm fine either way. Good thing I asked 🙂 I will PM you! Here's what I just drew up using the OP 1280 drawings plus data, plus some scaled-up measurements of an M65 bomb with a similar tail. Since I haven't seen a single good side view of this bomb+tail combinatoon, I can't do a visual judgement of the result. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Here is a 500lb version: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Finn said: Here is a 500lb version: Jari Thanks! The bomb series was used quite a bit more than I knew a couple of months ago, I'm spotting them more and more 🙂 A bit more progress on my M66: I took one of the resin bombs and built it up with 0.5 mm thick strips, to arrive at the correct diameter while maintaining the shape. I looked in my scrap models collection for a conical piece, and found an Esci 1/72 F-104 that fitted quite well, so I cut the radome off. I will now hold for GW's information. In the mean time I will apply Millliput to the bomb body to make it nice and smooth. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 8 hours ago, Rob de Bie said: Good thing I asked 🙂 I will PM you! Here's what I just drew up using the OP 1280 drawings plus data, plus some scaled-up measurements of an M65 bomb with a similar tail. Since I haven't seen a single good side view of this bomb+tail combinatoon, I can't do a visual judgement of the result. Rob I'll get them scanned and e-mailed to you this weekend.👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 10 hours ago, GW8345 said: I'll get them scanned and e-mailed to you this weekend.👍 Super! Many thanks in advance. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 7:00 AM, Rob de Bie said: Super! Many thanks in advance. Rob You got mail. 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Rob here is video show showing either the M65 or M66: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 16 hours ago, Finn said: Rob here is video show showing either the M65 or M6 Jari Thanks for the great video link! I think it shows an M65: that would be ~2.30m / 7'7", and I think that scales reasonably with the figure. I'm currently rebuilding the bomb components, based on GW's drawing, and I hope to show progress soon. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Here's some progress with the bomb. The bomb body is nice and smooth again, the cone shortened and given a new angle, plus a prototype of the sheet metal fins. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 More progress from the bomb front. I made 'pressed sheet metal' fins using a simple mold, cast copies and glued them to a conical tail. I still need to scribe some lines and make a few slots. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 That's awesome scratchbuilding, Rob. What are the pressed fins made of, and how exactly do you press them onto the buck (and how do you build this)? I couldn't quite get the process for the fin-making part -- can you elaborate a little please? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, crackerjazz said: That's awesome scratchbuilding, Rob. What are the pressed fins made of, and how exactly do you press them onto the buck (and how do you build this)? I couldn't quite get the process for the fin-making part -- can you elaborate a little please? Thanks! I first printed the bomb to scale (1/48), then glued pieces of 2x1 mm plastic strip exactly butting on the edges of the pressed steel shape. This is the mold, nothing more. The material is 0.1 and 0.2 mm aluminum foil, from food dishes. I pressed with my finger or thumb, the pressure depends on the material thickness and the depth you're looking for. It works very naturally. In the end the 0.1 mm parts were too vulnerable, I used 0.2 mm parts.I hope it's clearer now. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackerjazz Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Wow that's a great technique! Yes it's clear to me now, thanks! : ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) Slowly but surely I'm getting there! I made a mold of the scatchbuilt tail, then made some castings, and assembled and painted two of them. I still need to add fuses, and I left off the lugs since I'm using small magnets to attach them to the pylon, but I'm happy with the results so far. Rob Edited March 28, 2019 by Rob de Bie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Awesome job, looks great! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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