VMA(AW)-533 TRAM transition date

[RichardW]

Hi

 

I'm about to start on a 32nd A-6 build. Got both the A and E-TRAM boxings from Trumpy. I want to start with a Marine version of the E-TRAM, but not in the slightly boring grey over grey scheme, but the much more interesting gull grey and white.

But here is where it gets tricky. The phase out of that scheme happened around the same period as the TRAM introduction. Still I have many ref pictures of TRAM's still wearing the old Gull Grey and white scheme, mostly Navy. So it is possible. But for which squadron and what decals, since there's not a lot of options out there (basically only AoA).

 

AoA has a nice colorfull set for VMA-533 in 1975, just before getting the E's in. But those are just regular E's, not TRAMs. The same scheme was used in the years following however.

 

So when did they actually get the TRAM ? Early 80's ? Or mid 80's when they would probably no longer have the gull grey and white scheme ?

 

Or did they ?

There's one hopefull image, the one below. It's from 1986. 

 

 

But not very colorfull. Could this just be a one off ? The one behind it, is in the grey scheme.

 

Feel free to comment.

Thanks

Edited June 27, 2023 by RichardW

[Quixote74]

According to my references TRAM was introduced in 1979, but based on a lot of photos from the early/mid-1980s it took a while for all of the A-6E fleet to be upgraded.  I seem to recall that early on some airframes were wired for TRAM but didn't have the turret below the radome actually fitted (possibly due to shortages?)  It's also very common in that era to see white TRAM turrets on TPS gray Intruders, and vice versa - in fact if you look closely the hi-viz example you posted has a ghost gray turret, and the TPS gray bird behind it has a white turret!

 

Specific to VMA(AW)-533, judging from photos on seaforces.org they would have been in low-viz TPS grays by the time of their JFK cruises (86-87 & 88-89, per http://www.gonavy.jp/CV-CV67f.html) so it's pretty clear that the scheme you posted is a "special," but still a valid subject!

[ziggyfoos]

That's one period I've not looked into much and I don't know when exactly they got the first turret other than some time first half of the 1980s, possibly as late as around 1983 but definitely by 1984. By at least early 1983 though they were already in that transitional period of low viz grey tail markings and still in overall LGG/white, but also by mid 1983 they were seen in full TPS scheme (and no turrets, at least not on all a/c yet if there were some?) Refer to their 1984 Saratoga deployment workups in 1983, low viz and AA tail codes. For the 1984 Sara cruise they appear with (white) TRAM turrets. Hopefully someone else had narrow the window better.

 

Are you specifically wanting to use the turret itself or wanting that 1970s scheme but on an E/E TRAM kit? If the latter, you could model a late E with 533 from the late 70s with the same high viz scheme but just leave the turret off. 533's A-6Es in the late 70s already had the big rear scoop, panel under the nose, and everything just not the turret yet. 

 

That pic from 1986 you posed on JFK, I don't know the story behind that oddball scheme was but it must've been a one-off (doesn't even have any intake warnings). As mentioned, 533 were already in TPS for a few years by that time.

[Finn]

Here are some JFK A-6Es from the 83-84 cruise book, one low grey can be seen:

 

 

Jari

[RichardW]

11 hours ago, ziggyfoos said:

..........

Are you specifically wanting to use the turret itself or wanting that 1970s scheme but on an E/E TRAM kit? If the latter, you could model a late E with 533 from the late 70s with the same high viz scheme but just leave the turret off. 533's A-6Es in the late 70s already had the big rear scoop, panel under the nose, and everything just not the turret yet. 

 

That pic from 1986 you posed on JFK, I don't know the story behind that oddball scheme was but it must've been a one-off (doesn't even have any intake warnings). As mentioned, 533 were already in TPS for a few years by that time.

 

I guess I want a full on E-TRAM with turret, just not with the TPS scheme. And in Marines markings. White and LGG is possible with Navy markings as we see in the VA-85 picture. And I have other examples from VA-52 (NF), VA-75 (AC), VX-5, VA-128 (NJ), VA-35 (AJ), VA-95 (NH), VA-196 (NK) , VA-34 (AB). 

 

I found another strange one.

 

 

It's either the photo/sky/lighting, but that does not look like LGG to me. More like Light Ghost Grey. But we all know, grey's in photo's can be very tricky due to the white-balance. The scheme isn't very colourfull either.

 

Listed as 1981, WK-157023/03, but which Squadron ? I think it's VMA(AW)-224.
On the Intruders Associations website it says 224 got their TRAMs in 1974. That sounds way too early, so they were probably regular E's

I could just go with artistic freedom. And do the AoA 533's in LGG/White, with that colourfull tail and still put on the turret. Or give the TPS scheme the benefit of the doubt and just use the inbox decals for VA-196. The tail at least is very colourfull.
This kind of research before doing a kit is one of the nice things about this hobby. Before you know it, you're on five summer evenings just Googling around without ever touching any sprues. And you end up on some pretty obsure, entertaining and very helpfull websites. Always something new to learn.

Edited June 27, 2023 by RichardW

[Quixote74]

3 hours ago, RichardW said:

It's either the photo/sky/lighting, but that does not look like LGG to me. More like Light Ghost Grey. But we all know, grey's in photo's can be very tricky due to the white-balance. The scheme isn't very colourfull either.

 

Listed as 1981, WK-157023/03, but which Squadron ? I think it's VMA(AW)-224.

 

Correct on this being VMA(AW)-224, but I think this is a late and relatively rare variant of 36440 light gull gray over white, used in the late 70s/early 80s before TPS became standard (this was the attack community's equivalent of the Phantoms & Tomcats in overall 36440, between the gray/white "hi viz" era and TPS "yuck and double yuck" gray on gray). You can see a better quality example on this page, 3rd section down, 2nd image from the right (VMA-332).  [If a bright tail on a TPS airframe would satisfy you, the VMA-533 example on that same page from 1990 has the full color blue/white checkerboard rudder with otherwise gray markings]

 

The gray/white example in your photo seems to have a borrowed outboard tank in 36375 light ghost gray - noticeably darker and "bluer" than the upper airframe color.  Judging by the sky I'm confident the odd appearance is a combination of lighting and white balance in the image.