SpacecraftGuy Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Nope. there's just no way my painting skills are up to getting my AMT Artemis to look anything like the Artemis. So I think I'll cheat. I have the great AXM paper model of the Artemis and the piece of card wrapped into a cylinder makes for a great looking fuel tank. Why not make the paper model into a decal? That would eliminate the need to become a master artist. So I scaled the AMX model of the core to 1/200, and started going through alll the photos I can find and the screen grabs I made of the launch and started adding what details I could find and making a few corrections to the AXM "kit". Mostly that involved re-doing the conical transition. I should have 20 segments, not the 19 as printed, and I noticed that the "gores" on the real thingaren't quite the same size. They run in a patter of fives, the widest to the right, 2 "norma"l sizes to its left, then a narrower one, and finally another normal sized. Of course, none of this would be vaguely visible in 1/200 scale. On the core, I respaced the supports for the three large conduits to match the kit parts, which are incorrect but I'm not rebuildinging them. There is a pair of two small conduits as well, that AMT has molded into a strange shape that has a ridge in the center instead of a valley, and it doesn't seem to be in the right position anyway? I left that marked as AXM placed it. I'm thinking of adding styrene bits where AXM has the supports, as they seem to be correct, and replace the kit part with stainless wire, as the conduits are bare metal anyway. There are also a whole lot of "rivet heads", for lack of a better term, across sections of the core, and some interesting marking. I tried to add as many of them as I can find. So I finally have it where it scales properly as a wrap, with a bit of overlap at the edge just in case. Still tweaking details and fit to the AMT kit. A millimeter here, a millimeter there. It'll be a while before I hit the local print shop, but if anyone is interested, I thought I'd share the draft so far. A lower res version. Edited February 2 by SpacecraftGuy Baffled by editing attachments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 (edited) In case you're wondering if this would work, I did it before to create a a wrap for the core and the rest of the markings for a Dragon? Ariane V Rosetta mission. I think it worked out really well, tho' I didn't want to alter the kit to create quite the correct number of vertical "bricks". Oh, there's the Artemis back there, with a paper b&w segment of the wrap checking the fit. Edited January 16 by SpacecraftGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) Replaced the attachment in the first post with one removing the paired conduits, as that would be the wrap that anyone would use who wasn't going to replace the kit part with a small and fiddly scratched piece. Moved the bases of the other conduits anywhere from .2 to .6mm up or down to match where the kit details appear so that they line up better. Also revised a couple details on the transition. Also updated the transition with a second version showing how it appears at some point pre-launch. There appear to be some protective covers in place over a couple of... somethings. Damn, still have to figure out what those access hatches on the tank look like. They're okay as they are, I guess, but I still haven't found a decent image of the real things. Still a WIP. Edit: Deleted the opriginal attachhment, as it has been replaced by the new/final? version in both the posts above and below. Edited February 2 by SpacecraftGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 On 1/16/2024 at 9:53 AM, SpacecraftGuy said: but if anyone is interested Even though my name isn't anyone, I am very much interested! Those look good. Am still at the 'seams on the tubes' point on my "Merry Christmas to myself" kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SpacecraftGuy said: anyone - who wasn't going to replace the kit part with a small and fiddly scratched piece. That too includes me. Edited January 17 by southwestforests Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 There are companies out there offering vinyl skin wraps for scale model rockets. I bought a couple a few years ago for the Estes Mercury Redstone and Apollo Little Joe II. Do a search on "model rocket skins" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 hours ago, habu2 said: Do a search on "model rocket skins" That would be for other people, I know all about model rocket skins given I do model rockets, well have done, has been a good decade since I've flown any of them. That last word there, 'decal', that's the critically important part here - waterslide decal versus adhesive wrap. On 1/16/2024 at 9:53 AM, SpacecraftGuy said: Why not make the paper model into a decal? With my health what it is these days, the, generally, forgiving adjustability of a waterslide decal is much more doable than an adhesive wrap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) This kit needs decal help! And this covers a lot of the markings! I got the got. Assembled the kit. Painted the kit. Started decaling the kit. Threw the kit in trash. Ordered a new kit. The kit decals are the absolute worst possible decals ever!!! The white is out of register. They are ungodly thick. I can’t get them to settle with any combination of Micro set/sol, Tamiya Mark Fit/Mark Fit Strong, Mr. Mark Soft/Set, and/or heat. And then to top it off, I can’t get the damn decals off! Duct tape isn’t even pulling them off! And lacquer thinner is getting to the paint before the decal even. For a fairly cheap kit, it wasn’t worth the the salvage efforts. The kit itself is decent. Certainly not winning any awards for detail. But construction and fit were pretty straightforward. How are you guys printing these? I’ve done some simple laser decal paper prints at home, but it doesn’t seem the quality would be there for larger or more graphically complex decals. Edited January 26 by ESzczesniak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 (edited) On 1/25/2024 at 8:11 PM, ESzczesniak said: The kit decals are the absolute worst possible decals ever!!! The white is out of register. They are ungodly thick. I can’t get them to settle with any combination of Micro set/sol, Tamiya Mark Fit/Mark Fit Strong, Mr. Mark Soft/Set, and/or heat. Hmm, haven't even opened the decals in mine yet. Might just go do that now. ▶️ EDIT: 01/27 This set is in register. Transparent decal film is indeed thick, and quite glossy. Brings to mind 1990s Monogram or was it Revell Star Trek ship decals, which were, shall we say, quite sturdy, and literally said in the fine print of back of sheet to NOT use setting solution. Have through the decades seen some Tamiya decals which were quite thick, MPC wins the thickness prize. Would have very much liked decals which had the kind of transparent film I've experienced with Microscale, thin with a less than automobile showroom gloss. And Oh My are there a bunch, as in, A BUNCH, of individual tiny decals in like 10 point and 12 point font letter I size ... 😲 Edited January 27 by southwestforests Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 (edited) Stalled for a little while (tiling the bathroom) on finishing the decal wrap. Rathet than just searching for images of "Artemis", the other day I realized I could also try "SLS". And, lo!, there were a couple really good, if hard to find, high-res images of the thing that have given me a few new details to fix and add to the wrap. Now it sounds like I should really "draft" the rest of the markings in 1/200 scale. That's sad to hear about the decals, because it's not such a bad little kit (Charlie Brown's comment about his Christmas tree just came to mind), it just needs a little loving. Or maybe a whole lot of loving. The hardest part of pinting your own decals is finding decal paper. If you have a good color printer already, printing is dead easy. If you don't, you can probably search out a commericial stand-alone print shop who will be willing to do it for you. On the color laser that my print shop uses, the laser printer has to be set to it's highest "power?". Works great and they only charge for a regular color photocopy, as you've supplied the paper. So you can get multiple copies in case of error for just a couple of $. Edited January 26 by SpacecraftGuy Oh, typing skills... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 On 1/26/2024 at 1:13 PM, SpacecraftGuy said: the other day I realized I could also try "SLS". And, lo!, there were a couple really good, if hard to find, high-res images of the thing Yay! Good find. 😊 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/25/2024 at 10:13 PM, southwestforests said: Hmm, haven't even opened the decals in mine yet. Might just go do that now. ▶️ EDIT: 01/27 This set is in register. Transparent decal film is indeed thick, and quite glossy. Brings to mind 1990s Monogram or was it Revell Star Trek ship decals, which were, shall we say, quite sturdy, and literally said in the fine print of back of sheet to NOT use setting solution. Have through the decades seen some Tamiya decals which were quite thick, MPC wins the thickness prize. Would have very much liked decals which had the kind of transparent film I've experienced with Microscale, thin with a less than automobile showroom gloss. And Oh My are there a bunch, as in, A BUNCH, of individual tiny decals in like 10 point and 12 point font letter I size ... 😲 My new kit came in today and the decals are also in register. I'm probably too scared to use them. But they are in register. It may be a reasonable option to selectively use the logo's that go on flat surfaces only. But I'll have to work on options for the few markings that aren't on perfectly flat surfaces. Both the FSM review and the article on "masking" the kit in the current FSM lament their unresponsiveness to setting solutions. In particular, both called out not being able to get the NASA worm logos to settle over the conduit and get rid of silvering. This is where I ultimately called it and just wasn't happy enough with mine to own it. I then tried removing the decal, and then gave up. If no aftermarket decals come out soon, I am considering scanning and printing the decal sheet or trying to use a Cricut to cut custom masks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 IPMS released a couple of sheets waaaay back in 1996 & 1997, maybe you can find one? http://www.ninfinger.org/models/vault/NASA %26 NACA Aircraft/NASAdecals1996IPMSNats.jpg http://www.ninfinger.org/models/vault/NASA %26 NACA Aircraft/NASAdecalsIPMSVA.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 5 hours ago, ESzczesniak said: But I'll have to work on options for the few markings that aren't on perfectly flat surfaces. Potential idea via Tamiya in the late 1970s, early 80s; (hmm, ... via Tamiya ... "Viva Tamiya!") Curbside style 1/24 motorized model of Lancia Stratos rally car sponsored by Alitalia Airline, which I built in my dorm room - Kit instructions said for airline logo decal on 3-d curve of car's roof, heat a soft cloth in warm water and press decal with it. It worked exactly as advertised. But there is the factor that Tamiya probably deliberately selected a decal material which would do that. No telling with Artemis decal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, southwestforests said: Potential idea via Tamiya in the late 1970s, early 80s; (hmm, ... via Tamiya ... "Viva Tamiya!") Curbside style 1/24 motorized model of Lancia Stratos rally car sponsored by Alitalia Airline, which I built in my dorm room - Kit instructions said for airline logo decal on 3-d curve of car's roof, heat a soft cloth in warm water and press decal with it. It worked exactly as advertised. But there is the factor that Tamiya probably deliberately selected a decal material which would do that. No telling with Artemis decal. I've used heat before for carbon fiber patters on Formula 1 undertrays. I used a heat gun instead of warm water. It worked like a charm on those horribly complex patterns of the rear defusers. But even that didn't work on these decals. The thing that worked the best was Tamiya Mark Fit Strong, but it still couldn't get it to a place where I was going to be happy to own the model. These sentiments were echoes in the above articles I referenced too. One could make it better, but couldn't make it good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 (edited) And, reading all the comments about how terrible the kit decals are, I redrafted almost all of them. This was all done on Photoshop, so it's not vector. That shouldn't matter, as there's nothing to enlarge them for, except I'll probably use them to update my 1/144 reduction of the 1/96 AXM paper model, which they should still be fine for. The markings I revised should have a better resolution/clarity than the originals and I've tried to brighten the colors closer to true. I just pasted all my new versions over the top of the old on a scan of the kit decal sheel. On my last session alone, I had 92 separate layers. How that's possible, I don't know, as I'm not sure there are 92 separate items on the page. A lot of hours. Where the kit decals are still visible and unchanged, that's because I either have those bits updated on the side or on the (new/final?) version of the core wrap, which I just edited into my original post above. The same revised transition cone appears in both of those attachments. If I haven't revised a part of the AMT decal sheet, that means I haven't found what the decal is on any of my references, so I'm going to assume AMT found something I haven't. The only thing I've left incorrect is the position of the narrow twin conduits/pipes on the main tank, to match the position of the kit part. Who know? - maybe the kit part is positioned correctly? Again, if you open them in a new tab in your browser, you can enlarge them to full size, tho' these are 200 dpi versions of my 600 dpi originals. They should still print just fine. Edited February 2 by SpacecraftGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 (edited) Some of my references. Some of these photos took a lot of searching, so I thought I'd post them here. Edited February 2 by SpacecraftGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 Some more of my references. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 A couple more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 (edited) Some screen grabs from the launch. Edited February 2 by SpacecraftGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpacecraftGuy Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 And a couple more screen grabs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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