BWDenver Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) A recent trip to White Sands to shoot the Missile Garden got me off on a Firebee tangent. I'm looking to do several of the drones used in Viet Nam and a few developmental birds. One of the pieces of kit on the 147 Series and USAF designated Firebees is the nose piece with a rathe curious silver part on it. As you can see there are what looks like two slits in the front of the silver horn. I'm thinking it's an AOA sensor, but not sure. There are two different nose pieces for the Firebee's included below are two shots from Ryan. Any thoughts or insight? Thanks in advance! Bryan Edited March 18 by BWDenver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Mignard Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 It’s an angle of attack (AOA) indexer. It’s used keep the drone flying within it’s flight envelope. Mig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) Thats what I figured, never needed one on the helos I flew. Then again I've never seen the gadget that's behind the probe..... Now if I just knew what the white patch was.... Edited January 17 by BWDenver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I've been working on various AQM-34K / L / M models for many years, slowly understanding the details and creating the parts. I used an Italeri BQM-34A (from the DC-130 kit) as the basis. I used tips cut from needles for the AoA probe you're asking about. The mold is worn out, so I cannot provide copies unfortunately. https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/aqm34.htm https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/aqm34-1.htm https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/aqm34-2.htm I've also done an extensive review of the PlusModel BQM-34A. My conclusion is that the old Italeri BQM-34A is still the best option. If you've been searching the net, you probably found my AQM-34 website. Rob Edited January 17 by Rob de Bie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Well aware of your fantastic site, and have it bookmarked on my Firebee folder. Love your work. Several weeks ago, I made a trip to Bosque del Apache in NM to photograph Sandhill Cranes. Decided to run down to White Sands and shoot the missile Garder, since I was in the neighborhood. There was a rather curious BQM-34A there, highly polished with 4 wing pylons. Turns out it was the HATS (High Attitude Teat System) used as a Laser target. Shot of the bird in the garden, and after a flight, photo from "Fireflies and other UAVS". Currently working up 3D CAD files on the B Wing, and hope to print them, along with a 147TE and 147J nose section. By any chance do you have a clear copy of the TO 21M-AQM34-3, Figure 1-7, RPV Station Locations? I The low rez copy I have is so bad you can't read the Flight Station numbers... Thanks' in advance, Bryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Mignard Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 11 hours ago, BWDenver said: Thats what I figured, never needed one on the helos I flew. Then again I've never seen the gadget that's behind the probe..... Now if I just knew what the white patch was.... The gadget is a transducer. It converts movement in the probe into electrical signals which then move the controls. I flew H-3’s, Hueys, and OH-6’s. MIG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Rob Mignard said: The gadget is a transducer. It converts movement in the probe into electrical signals which then move the controls. I flew H-3’s, Hueys, and OH-6’s. MIG Interesting Rob, I flew UH-1H & 1V, OH-58A, CH-47C/D and a smattering of AH-1G time Mil and 206BII & III and 500D's civil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rob Mignard said: The gadget is a transducer. It converts movement in the probe into electrical signals which then move the controls. I flew H-3’s, Hueys, and OH-6’s. MIG Interesting Rob, I flew UH-1H & 1V, OH-58A, CH-47C/D and a smattering of AH-1G time Mil and 206BII & III and 500D's civil Found these this morning. The images below are from the Ryan Archives, the 124R is the pattern for the IAF 124 and the forerunner to the US RECCE drones. They extended the fuselage by about 30", inserting the plug just before the equipment bay. The plug was cylindrical at a constant cross section, but shifted down a bit. Around .0775". More details can be found on Rob de Bie's web site. Edited January 17 by BWDenver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 hours ago, BWDenver said: Well aware of your fantastic site, and have it bookmarked on my Firebee folder. Love your work. Several weeks ago, I made a trip to Bosque del Apache in NM to photograph Sandhill Cranes. Decided to run down to White Sands and shoot the missile Garder, since I was in the neighborhood. There was a rather curious BQM-34A there, highly polished with 4 wing pylons. Turns out it was the HATS (High Attitude Teat System) used as a Laser target. Shot of the bird in the garden, and after a flight, photo from "Fireflies and other UAVS". Are you the same Bryan that contacted me mid-December? I replied but got an 'Undeliverable' reply: failed: host mx1.emailsrvr.com (173.203.187.1) said: 554 5.7.1 <ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl[195.121.94.184]>: Client host rejected: The sender's email address or mail server is blocked by this recipient (in reply to RCPT command) That left me without any alternatives to reply. Excellent research on the four-pylon Firebee, and how nice that it is preserved! Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 hours ago, BWDenver said: Currently working up 3D CAD files on the B Wing, and hope to print them, along with a 147TE and 147J nose section. By any chance do you have a clear copy of the TO 21M-AQM34-3, Figure 1-7, RPV Station Locations? I The low rez copy I have is so bad you can't read the Flight Station numbers... Yes, I have a few TO 21M-AQM34-3 drawings, courtesy of Dave Matthews, former AQM-34 instructor IIRC. But to transfer them, we need to sort out that e-mail problem. It seems we have similar plans regarding 3D models and 3D printing. But I have too many plans.. 😞 I've done a few 3D CAD + print projects now, and confidence is growing. One question regarding wings is a comment I heard that properly scaled wings always look too thin and flat, and that they need to be fattened as an optical correction. It would help with the bending stiffness too, that would be welcome. What are you planning to do in that respect? Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 27 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said: Are you the same Bryan that contacted me mid-December? I replied but got an 'Undeliverable' reply: failed: host mx1.emailsrvr.com (173.203.187.1) said: 554 5.7.1 <ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl[195.121.94.184]>: Client host rejected: The sender's email address or mail server is blocked by this recipient (in reply to RCPT command) That left me without any alternatives to reply. Excellent research on the four-pylon Firebee, and how nice that it is preserved! Rob Upon rereading the thread, I spotted your full name in the photo's copyright note, so I can answer the question with a yes 🙂 That leaves the e-mail problem. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said: Are you the same Bryan that contacted me mid-December? I replied but got an 'Undeliverable' reply: failed: host mx1.emailsrvr.com (173.203.187.1) said: 554 5.7.1 <ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl[195.121.94.184]>: Client host rejected: The sender's email address or mail server is blocked by this recipient (in reply to RCPT command) That left me without any alternatives to reply. Excellent research on the four-pylon Firebee, and how nice that it is preserved! Rob That would be me! Can't think why you would get an NDR... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, BWDenver said: That would be me! Can't think why you would get an NDR... Just maybe it's that my provider 'xs4all' is blacklisted? It was founded 40 years ago by hackers, and had a bad rep for some years. But that is all way, waaaay in the past. Over to you.. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 Rob, I'll check with my email provider.... We've bounced emails back and forth a number of years ago, but can't remember what my provider was, either USARMY.mil or 4Division... Bryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 11 hours ago, BWDenver said: Rob, I'll check with my email provider.... We've bounced emails back and forth a number of years ago, but can't remember what my provider was, either USARMY.mil or 4Division... Bryan I looked it up, it was in 2016. Your e-mail address back then was exactly the same as last December. That's puzzling, since there was no problem in 2016. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 Curious, have you tried sending another email? If you get an NDR message me in a private message with it and I can check with my email provider. Cheers! Bryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I tried again, same result. I sent a PM with the message received back. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 The visit to white Sands ignited a long simmering interest. In the mid 70's I picked up the Airmodel Lockheed DC-130A Hercules with Ryan AQM-34 Firebee Drones Vac kit of the RECCE drones and DC-130 nose. The drones were an exercise in imagination. But the DC-130 nose had potential. I even have a copy of their other Firebee Vac, Ryan Firebee II + DC-130A nose, pylons & DP-2E canopy, pylons. In case I screw up the nose. And of course I have the Testors 1/72 DC-130 with drones, but they didn't give you the DC nose. I've always been interested in RECCE birds, especially the Ryan photo birds based on the BQM-34A Firebee. To build a RECCE platform they stretched the fuselage aft of the exhaust by 35". Then they enlarged the nose in order to hold the cameras for a fuselage length of around 28 1/2 feet. The bird I'm starting with is a 1/48 147J while not terribly successful, it did lead to the 174SC Buffalo hunter drones which were highly successful. They had long 27' wings, up from the 13' wing of the BQM-34A. The 147J was originally meant for high altitude work, and they decided to convert it to a low-level bird, in testing they had a number of failures as the bird simply did not maneuver worth a darn. In the shot below taken at Bien Hoa Viet Nam the 147J is on the left. I started out with the intent to build a nose section to come up with a conversion kit for the ICM AQM-34A. That has morphed into doing a full kit with resin printing. I built the nose section up with Milliput then started sanding it down. finally slicing it up and scanning it to a digital format to import into a 3D CAD package. Steep learning curve... I built up a holder for the nose section, and then very reluctantly sliced up a weeks' worth of work. Long process! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) Bryan & Rob, I placed an order last week on Shapeways.com for a bunch of 3D printed items, including a couple of 1/144 scale BQM-34A Firebee drones for a 1/144 DP-2E Neptune project. Two days later they send me an email saying that they are processing the order except for the BQM-34A which is out of print parameters and they're coordinating with the designer (Bill's Models). If the designer does not respond within seven days, Shapeways will cancel that item from my order. I was really hoping to get some 1/144 BQM-34As for my planned Neptune and Hercules projects. I have also contacted the designer myself. Will see what happens. Bryan, do you think that you will be able to 3D print a BQM-34 in 1/144 scale as well? Kind regards, Dutch Edited March 11 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 (edited) Dutch, Ok, maybe i should finish me second cup of coffee before I do math... Couple of issues with this. While I would like to say I'm so good I can do anything, BUT 1/144th? The size of the BQM-34A has a wingspan v length of 13' x 23', that work out to a wingspan and length of 0.09' X 0.159' instead of in "... 1" x 2.75", still pretty small.... I have yet to print anything, while I have an 8K resin printer, I'm not sure it can print a wing that individually is around 0.03'. 0.36"... But the thickness would be on the order of 0.02"... The other issue is, I don't have any intent on doing the BQM-34A. I want to do the drones that have an extended fuselage similar to the 147J with a 35" plug in the back and an extended enlarged nose. Now if it "might work", you could do a 147SC hanging off the two birds. But again, it would be an awfully small item.... But it might be doable... Cheers! Brayn Edited March 11 by BWDenver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 hours ago, Dutch said: Bryan & Rob, I placed an order last week on Shapeways.com for a bunch of 3D printed items, including a couple of 1/144 scale BQM-34A Firebee drones for a 1/144 DP-2E Neptune project. Two days later they send me an email saying that they are processing the order except for the BQM-34A which is out of print parameters and they're coordinating with the designer (Bill's Models). If the designer does not respond within seven days, Shapeways will cancel that item from my order. I was really hoping to get some 1/144 BQM-34As for my planned Neptune and Hercules projects. I have also contacted the designer myself. Will see what happens. There's always the Corgi die-cast 1/144 DC-130 with four BQM-34As. Never seen it in the flesh though.. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) Rob, I have one of the Corgi DC-130A and LC-130R kits. They are die-cast and very heavy. I haven't measured the drones for accuracy. I figured it was the easiest way to add these two Herk models to my 1/144 Hercules collection. Oh, I received word from Bill and Shapeways that the issue was resolved and my order is being processed for printing and then shipping. I should be able to share photos in a week to ten days when it arrives. K/r, Dutch Edited March 12 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Dutch said: Oh, I received word from Bill and Shapeways that the issue was resolved and my order is being processed for printing and then shipping. I should be able to share photos in a week to ten days when it arrives. K/r, Dutch From the link you sent it looks like the wings and tail are somewhat "blocky". The wing thickness 1-1 is on the order of around 3". You can probably use the same Dim for the tail surfaces. Rog may have more definitive dimension. But again, it 1/44... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Bryan, I am completely ignorant of the limitations of 3D filament or resin printing, so my apology is in order on that score. Yes, I have to have at least two cups of coffee before I do any math. The 3D drones appear to be a little "clunky" as you pointed out. Also there is some kind of strange bulge forward and slightly above the wing root. May have to file that down. I will probably thin the wing and stab LE & TE a little. Those are the biggest factors in the clunky appearance. But I also like the long body, long wing 147s. Carry on, good Sir! K/r Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) I checked the model at Shapeways, and oh dear.. The fuselage looks reasonably good, although the exhaust is bad. But the wing and horizontals are trapezium-shaped instead of constant chord. And the horizontals have wing endplates, which were very rare AFAIK, but those can be removed easily. That leaves the wing and horizontals planform shape. If you need BQM-34 drawings, check out my PlusModel 1/72 BQM-34A Firebee kit review: https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/bqm34review.htm. Wing thickness is 3.04", horizontals thickess 2.8". That would make around half a miilimeter in 1/144, and very floppy.. Fattening a small-scale wing does little harm, it apparently looks more realistic too 🙂 Back to the Corgi model? Rob Edited March 13 by Rob de Bie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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