Helldiver Question

[James A]

I've got a Academy Helldiver in the stash and I'm planning to do it in Atlantic colors. Is there anything I need to modify on the Academy kit to represent an Atlantic squadron?

[A-4Silverfox]

Not really. You'll just have to determine what carrier markings. Paint scheme will either be overall dark blue or anti-sub grey over white. The dark blue birds flew in Operations Dragoon and the Anvil landings.

[Chuck1945]

Be careful if you want Atlantic Fleet markings. No US fleet (CV) or light (CVL) carriers supported Dragoon/Anvil, two USN escort carriers (CVE) were there equipped with Hellcats. For normal anti-sub operations, the escort carrier composite airgroups were typically FM-2 Wildcats and TBM Avengers. The Helldiver did not normally equip the CVE airgroups.

Peter ("I never met a dive bomber I didn't like") C. Smith makes no mention of Atlantic Helldiver operations in his SB2C book nor can I find mention in any other reference of the Helldiver in the Atlantic other then East Coast training. I would be quite interested in learning more, especially if they were deployed for Dragoon/Anvil. The book I have on Atlantic Fleet escort carrier operations is buried somewhere so I can't check it.

[James A]

Chuck.

The Accurate Miniatures re-pop of the R/M Helldiver portrays a -4 Helldiver in Atlantic Markings based at NAS Atlantic City. Perhaps they were just patrolling the US coast?

The Academy kit gives marking options for a Grey over White Helldiver in the "Arantic" scheme. Has anyone raised issues about the accuracy of the Academy kit markings?

[A6BSTARM]

What about some of the USMC air units that flew out of Panama and Cuba doing the ASW patrol. I thought I had read some place that they upgraded crom SB2U's to SBD to SB2Cs.

****EDIT*****

Got to love Google.

Here is VS-31's history page, http://www.vs31.navy.mil/history/, that states they flew SB2C-4E's out of Massachusets in ASW Patrol from 1943 till the war's end in 1945 when as Scouting 31.

Then I have seen various article referencing some of the squadrons that flew out of NAS Atlantic City New Jersey that flew SB2C's. So check out your research there

Edited April 15, 2006 by A6BSTARM

[Dave Fleming]

IIRC the Academy markings are the same as those in the AM kit

[Chuck1945]

Those examples of Atlantic Helldivers again are all shore based, not on carriers. I vaguely recall having seen a photo (no idea where) of a Helldiver presumably painted in the anti-sub grey scheme, but it was shore based.

By the way, the SB2C-4E didn't start reaching the fleet until very late '44/early '45 so it is doubtful VS 41 was flying them in 1943.

It is possible to build a Helldiver using the anti-sub grey scheme, but other then trials, these did not operate in the Atlantic from carriers.

Too bad there isn't a USN equivilant of Sturtivant's The Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm. Would make it much easier to check equipment, bases/carriers and operations, and time frames.

[A6BSTARM]

Too bad there isn't a USN equivilant of Sturtivant's The Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm. Would make it much easier to check equipment, bases/carriers and operations, and time frames.

The problem there is during World War 2 there werer a number of USN squadrons stood up and decommissioned and then stood up again on different carriers or different air wings. I remember seeing a book by Barrett Tillman about US Navy Fighter Squadrons and even he had a hard time trying to keep it all straight. An example would be VF-3 and VF-6. In 1943, the US Navy stood up 2 squadrons named VF-6. One was the original pre-war squadron off the Enterprise the other was a brand new squadron commanded by O'Hare. After realizing the confusion after about 2 months of both squadrons filling offical memos. The O'Hare squadron was changed to VF-3.

Tracing lineage can be just as confusing, since again during world war 2 the US Navy seem to decom a squadron completely when it rotated all the way home. Only to be stood up with brand new personnel and new equipment and to be assigned a new name. I was digging through some of my fathers old papers and he was attempting to trace the lineage of VA-55, he got back to about 1942 with VT-5 off the USS Wasp. But the hard part was the inbetween time from when VT-5 spent time on the 'Canal and when they got lifted off. It seemed that the US Navy in its rush to get squadrons in the fight started the admin process to stand up another VT-5 and the fragments of the original VT-5 that was flying in the middle of the battle for Guadalcanal was going to be stood down completely, everyone there was going to be folded into some of the other TBF units there or be brought home. In the end the powers to be brought all the personnel home left the airplanes and stood the squadron down and stood it back up about 8 months later as a new VT-5.