The Space Shuttle build begins!

[MasterJedi]

Just got in the Revell 1/72 Space Shuttle and cut open the box to find a massive model! Tip to tail this is 21 inches! I'll bet the thing weighs three pounds (adding a few things) by the time it finished. And, I'm going to build one as a full stack for display. That's gonna be about three feet tall when done. Going to be very impressive when complete, my wife is thrilled with my new found smaller scale but much larger models, like 1/72 shuttle, 1/144 Saturn Rocket, 1/144 (3 foot)attack submarine, and things like that. At least I'm not building 1/48 spacecraft and such. Excited about this build, it's one of those didn't finish it right childhood builds. If you've got any tips or pitfalls you can warn me about I'd greatly appreciate it.

Randy

[niart17]

Hiya MaterJedi. Can't wait to see the progress on this one. It is a very impressive model isn't it? And even more so when built as a full stack. I've never actually finished the one I'd started many many years ago so I can't give you great advice other than pay close attention to the wing to fuse joint, especially in the belly area, I had a major pain trying to get that all lined up. Actually had to use a .040" sheet tapered down to get them flush. Main thing is take your time because these are some old molds and typically are pretty warped from what I've heard.

I suggest checking out some of the past builds here by doing a search, most recently K2Pete's cutaway model. Although his more than you're probably looking to do (if you're sane that is ) but he gives some good insight on the kit in general. There are others here than can definately help you out and I'm sure will step up and lend a hand. I know I've been leaning on them in my feable attempt at a 1/48th shuttle.

Good luck and God's speed.

Bill

[Jay Chladek]

If this is the Revell kit with the tile detail and the lift off flight deck, I can think of a couple things to worry about:

1. Don't worry about keeping the tile detail since it is inaccurate anyway. Sand it off and use paint, decals or other techniques to represent the tiles. The closest shuttle the tiles represent are for Enterprise and those were mockups on a non-space rated orbiter.

2. Be very careful with the left and right fuselage halves around the nose. Even when the kit was brand new, the fit was rather poor up front. I built two as a kid and BOTH had a bad seam in the nose. If you can clamp the nose tight while the glue dries, you'll be ahead of the curve. A technique that has worked well for me with the Monogram kit and might work with the Revell one is to leave the cockpit out of the model and not pop it in until after the nose is glued and dried. It will likely mean some modification to the sub-assemblies to pull off, but since the cockpit may have been responsible for the bad nose fit, I think it is necessary to do here.

3. When you get the windows on right to a level where you like them, cover them up with some Tamiya tape to protect them during the rest of the construction to keep them from getting damaged. In the case of this model, if you plan to keep the flight deck exposed with the cutaway section, at least you can cover them on the inside and the outside.

4. If you can, try to obtain one of the Revell of Germany decal sheets for this kit as the markings on it blow practically all other sheets AWAY! I have never before seen a shuttle sheet this extensively packed with stuff and I'm trying to secure some extra copies for my other models.

[K2Pete]

We'll be watchin' this one MasterJedi!

On the ET, I understand there's quite the seam at the top, and matching up the surface texture will be quite tricky.

And for the Orbiter's TPS, you may wanna try Surgical Tape to replicate the texture. I've only used it (so far) on a 1/100 Shuttle, and it looks great!

The kit's engine bells will require some work to make 'em accurate, but RealSpace Models has an aftermarket set, that are very nice.

Hey Jay ... how do the Revell of Germany decals compare to RealSpace's or Ed Bisconti's (from ebay). Could you maybe post a photo of the sheet? You've piqued my curiousity regarding it's comprehensive-ness.

Thanx ... can't wait to see some pix!

Pete

[MasterJedi]

Hey guys thanks for the time you spent writing the post. That information I'm sure will be useful. I've dry fit the major pieces and it looks pretty straight compare to the nightmares of ole'. Maybe in this new series they've changed up the plastic, modified the process, or something because it looks pretty good. I'm gonna get the thing tapes up and post a few pics.

Randy

[spaceflightengineer]

So Jay,

Please describe the decals from Rev. of Deutschland. Having only have bought the first issue of the 1/72nd Revell kit, the decals (which I still have, un-applied) were on the one hand nothing special, but also

not "incomplete" or anything such. The orbiters haven't a LOT of markings to begin with. Things that modelers never have placed on their masterpieces that could be included in a more complete marking set would be (as an example) the chevron-looking marks that are actually antenna coupler corner corner alignment marks for use on the ground (virtually every antenna under the TPS had a set of coupler alignment marks; even the huge-*** coupler for the MSBLS [microwave landing sys] antennas under the first row of tiles up from the nose cap (on the r/h side) had a couple of straight edge markers placed there (...they liked to burn off fast though). Besides the obvious NASA Worm or Meatballs and US Flags on the wings and fuselage sides, and the orbiter name on either side there were some "cut here" markings on the starboard side and instruction, directions for the overhead window lanyard access flap under the TPS (near that cut here). Unless you are talking about markings for individual tiles, I can't think of any other markings. Of course the "I can't think" in that sentence may impact the discussion a bit.

Just FYI- my orbiter model became a test bed of sorts. Never happy with the lack of fidelity of the payload bay door hinges I experimented on that kit to the point that I finally sealed the doors shut. I also experimented with trying for a convincing way to make the removable CM top one with the upper forward fuselage. At some point over 2 decades ago (while I was still on the STS program) I basically hung the craft with some nylon fishing line and other than a couple of good dustings, it stayed "up" in my den (until about a year ago when a strong wind gust decided to test the brittling of the styrene). I have had the original issue of the Mono full stack 1/72nd kit and it too was put aside- the orbiter and all parts incl the payload bay stuff is still in a large bag awaiting my fingers. I still have the SRBs about 3/4 way done- and corrected- I had modified the upper avionics segment since the outer topography was wrong as bought from the store (and it looks good!). ...maybe I should shoot some pix and post them. I do intend on replacing the very weak struts with metal replicas. My tank is accurate for the time- I modified it quite a bit (it's circa 1990).

Bruce

If this is the Revell kit with the tile detail and the lift off flight deck, I can think of a couple things to worry about:

1. Don't worry about keeping the tile detail since it is inaccurate anyway. Sand it off and use paint, decals or other techniques to represent the tiles. The closest shuttle the tiles represent are for Enterprise and those were mockups on a non-space rated orbiter.

2. Be very careful with the left and right fuselage halves around the nose. Even when the kit was brand new, the fit was rather poor up front. I built two as a kid and BOTH had a bad seam in the nose. If you can clamp the nose tight while the glue dries, you'll be ahead of the curve. A technique that has worked well for me with the Monogram kit and might work with the Revell one is to leave the cockpit out of the model and not pop it in until after the nose is glued and dried. It will likely mean some modification to the sub-assemblies to pull off, but since the cockpit may have been responsible for the bad nose fit, I think it is necessary to do here.

3. When you get the windows on right to a level where you like them, cover them up with some Tamiya tape to protect them during the rest of the construction to keep them from getting damaged. In the case of this model, if you plan to keep the flight deck exposed with the cutaway section, at least you can cover them on the inside and the outside.

4. If you can, try to obtain one of the Revell of Germany decal sheets for this kit as the markings on it blow practically all other sheets AWAY! I have never before seen a shuttle sheet this extensively packed with stuff and I'm trying to secure some extra copies for my other models.

[Jay Chladek]

Well, somebody at Britmodeler posted a scan of the decal sheet. Here is the thread:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50330

They included some corner alignment marks found on the white TPS of the shuttle (not sure if they are antennas up there, but these markings are on the sheet). Other access points on the fuselage are also represented in spots. Granted some of those are probably best left off and scribed in, but at least Revell of Germany made an attempt. The white tile decals for the wings and tail are also a nice touch as it means these areas can be painted all black and the white tile placed over the top to give the shuttle TPS its distinctive borders. Granted, I mask all my patterns, but I can see this aiding modelers with less skills quite nicely. In some areas, I like how the use of decals can speed the paint and masking work as masking a shuttle model is almost ALWAYS tedious to do.

Here's a link to the instructions BTW:

http://manuals.hobbico.com/rvl/80-4733.pdf

If you want to just check out the paint and decal instructions, skip to the last few pages. They did a much better job with this then Revell USA has done with their past shuttle issues.

BTW MasterJedi, are you trying to get ahold of a Monogram kit to do a full stack or do you plan to scratchbuild the ET and SRBs to use with the Revell one? I am curious to see how you plan to approach it. I'm currently deep in a full stack model right now, doing up a Monogram kit as Moonraker. When it is finished, I have plans to do a second one next year as Columbia from STS-1, white ET and all.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Jay Chladek

[spaceflightengineer]

Hey Jay,

Thanks for the look-see at those decals. I see the white chevrons on black rectangles. Some one misinterpreted what the were looking at as they have chevrons in pairs and opposing each other- the only place that would occur with them so close together is the TACAN upper antennas (forward of the windows- on top of the "snout" if you will). It's good someone is proactive enough to try and get more accurate. The sets of black chevrons are very cool- for those there should be (...doing mental review of antenna "count"...) 5 sets (3 TACAN, 2 S-Band Upper Switch-beam ants). Bottom ants (all through under hi temp TPS tile: 3 TACANs, 4 RADAR Altimeters [aka "RALTS"], one S-band FM, one UHF (the largest ant under tile) and two S-band switch-beams. Over time markings for the S-band FM/GPS antenna between the overhead windows seem to have stopped being used (testing those on the ground in the OPF if the overhead walkways are in place is a pain, and i'll bet they just do a quick peaking or zeroing in with the couplers- since it's known they are between those windows). It's good they are highlighting the other access points- no one yet seems to emphasize the OMBUU hatch about midway along the port fuselage- it's a fill point for payload bay items, but is often removed for fairly easy access to the bay. When the AFRSI TPS went on the ships, a lot of details became less obvious than when FRSI was on the fuselage.

Leave it to Revell of Germany to improve on US kits- they've always done it.

Thanks again.

Bruce

Well, somebody at Britmodeler posted a scan of the decal sheet. Here is the thread:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50330

They included some corner alignment marks found on the white TPS of the shuttle (not sure if they are antennas up there, but these markings are on the sheet). Other access points on the fuselage are also represented in spots. Granted some of those are probably best left off and scribed in, but at least Revell of Germany made an attempt. The white tile decals for the wings and tail are also a nice touch as it means these areas can be painted all black and the white tile placed over the top to give the shuttle TPS its distinctive borders. Granted, I mask all my patterns, but I can see this aiding modelers with less skills quite nicely. In some areas, I like how the use of decals can speed the paint and masking work as masking a shuttle model is almost ALWAYS tedious to do.

Here's a link to the instructions BTW:

http://manuals.hobbico.com/rvl/80-4733.pdf

If you want to just check out the paint and decal instructions, skip to the last few pages. They did a much better job with this then Revell USA has done with their past shuttle issues.

BTW MasterJedi, are you trying to get ahold of a Monogram kit to do a full stack or do you plan to scratchbuild the ET and SRBs to use with the Revell one? I am curious to see how you plan to approach it. I'm currently deep in a full stack model right now, doing up a Monogram kit as Moonraker. When it is finished, I have plans to do a second one next year as Columbia from STS-1, white ET and all.

[Jay Chladek]

I've thought about doing the OMBUU hatch myself as it is pretty large and distinctive. But when I did my Columbia 1/144 model, I figured the detail would be too fine to read well in that scale and when I did my Atlantis 1/72 stack, I was under the gun to get it done for the museum, so I was unable to do it on that build. Next time I do an AFRSI covered shuttle in 1/72, I'll give it a go using some SIG Koverite fabric to represent the AFRSI blankets and the appropriate splits in the hatches like that and the payload bay vent doors. My next full stack shuttle will be Columbia from STS-1, so I may have a go at either scribing it on or using a decal to define the border.

[MasterJedi]

Pulled some of the larger parts for dryfitting. Just removed the sprues and trimmed, no sanding of the mating surfaces, and the major sections com together pretty darn good. Some of the nightmares might have been averted. I purchased the Shuttle decal set from Ed and it looks really nice. I going to weather this one up, gear up, in prep for the stack. Right now those kits are going for insane money and I don't know why, is there all of the sudden a ton of interest in the orbiter system? The real pain in the tail (hands to be exact) is going to be sanding all of this raised detail off the entire spacecraft! I was thinking I might rebuild the reaction control nozzles with tube and such but it is more realistic to have them covered for prep to flight than open, saves time too. Now I just need to find a way to reaplicate those thermal blankets. I have recently seen a builder of paper models (unreal stuff) that uses tissue papers for the various textures, I think I can get away with it on 1/72 but not 1/144. Gonna have to practice a bit.

Randy

[Liberator24]

Very Nice Subjest Randy! We are ecstatic around here after hearing that Discovery has been moved out to the pad!! Great time for a SS build!!

-Jim

[Jay Chladek]

Nice work so far Randy. Most of the fit problems will likely crop up when the internals go into the model. I am pretty certain it was the cockpit interior that was the culprit on the last two Revell shuttles I did. So if you can engineer it so it falls in AFTER the fuselage is glued, I think you will end up with better fit. I've also heard of some modelers having problems in the previous Revell USA pressings with tail warpage, but Revell of Germany seems to use slightly softer plastics then what Revell USA does, so that will hopefully benefit this project in being able to massage pieces into place.

The availability of the full stack shuttles has been crazy ever since Columbia burned up. Prior to 1999 when Revell Monogram reissued the kit as an SSP, I didn't even know they existed as I never saw them for sale at retail where I was (and the Star Realm shop in LaVista, NE was known for getting ANYTHING either SF or real space related in the 1980s before it closed shop). I finally did locate one from a local club member and we negotiated a fair price for it (I had to resin cast a couple replacement parts though). The SSP reissue made them available again and demand was okay, but not great. At the LHS I worked for until 2000, we had a couple sitting on the shelf for almost a year, but they finally did sell.

When 2003 rolled around and STS-107 failed to return to Earth, demand spiked a bit (and so did the prices), then leveled off for the next year or so. I was able to obtain a complete SSP reissue from a vendor at the Oklahoma city Nationals that year, but I knew if I had waited even an hour, it would likely have been gone. When it was announced that shuttle would be retired in 2010, demand began to go up for these again, starting with STS-114 and 121. I was still able to obtain a couple more examples with some lucky eBay scores, but the days of getting a 1/72 full shuttle stack for less then triple digits are likely gone unless somebody wants to offer one as trade. Usually the prices tend to be the highest around a flight, since then the shuttles are in the public consciousness and collectors think more about obtaining them. But as I said, I think the days of inexpensive 1/72 shuttle stack kits are over.

Of course, Revell USA could help solve the problem if they were to reissue the kit again. At the KC Nationals in 2006, I talked to Ed Sexton and he mentioned they still had the tooling and it was still useable, but it wasn't all that likely it would get reissued, given it is a BIG mold (mainly the external tank). Of course, somebody next to me mentioned it wasn't really any bigger then the 1/72 GATO sub which came out that year and Ed conceded that point. There had been rumors circulating that Revell USA might repop the kit, but nothing has firmed up and Ed moved onto Academy a few years ago, so who knows WHO is in charge of kit selection.

It could still get reissued, but considering the original plan for shuttle retirement was by the end of 2010, I would have expected it to be available again by now. Revell of Germany's reissue of the Revell 1/72 orbiter complicates things a little as Revell of Germany stuff for real space typically isn't imported if there is an equivalent Revell USA kit already on the market. For instance, the Revell of Germany 1/96 Saturn V, Apollo astronaut and 1/48 LM were not offered in the US because the Monogram kits of the 1/144 Saturn V and the Apollo 11 diorama in 1/48 were issued here. Only kit that did make it over was the 1/32 Apollo CSM. Since the Revell of Germany shuttle kits in 1/144 and 1/72 are being imported by Revell USA, I don't see it all that likely that Revell USA will offer the 1/72 full stack again. I've also heard rumblings that except for Revell of Germany tooled kits that can be reboxed by Revell USA (i.e. the Star Wars pre-painted snap kits), space subjects have not been kind to Revell USA's pocket book. So they are apparently reluctant to offer anything new if they have to bankroll it themselves.

The one wildcard I can see in the whole thing would be if a third party like Stevens International were to put fourth the funding for a limited exclusive run of full stack shuttle kits. They did it for the Monogram Apollo kits about four years ago (my LHS still has an Apollo CSM as a shelf sitter from that production run). Given the size and nature of the kit though, I don't think it is going to fly off the shelves, even if it does come out. But that being said, Revell is still milking their 1/48 B-1B molds for all they are worth and that kit is also a monster. So I suppose it could still happen. If we don't hear about one coming out by the Ihobby show in Chicago next month, I won't hold my breath though as once the shuttle fleet retires, the chances for demand for such a kit among the general public will start to go down. If eBay and collections are the only source for these kits though, then I also anticipate those prices will start to drop as well once the shuttle leaves the public eye.

As for me, I have enough full stacks to keep me happy. All are earmarked for builds with one in the workshop right now as a Moonraker stack and a second one intended to become STS-1 by next April (June at the latest). After doing two of them (Moonraker is 90% assembled), I've got the pitfalls of the kit pretty much down pat. My one stack on display at the Strategic Air and Space Museum still sits proudly in its display case. Technically it is still my model, but I know it is highly unlikely it will ever leave the museum again unless I have to repair something on it. Of course, if the kit does get reissued again, I will still likely add two more to the pile since I KNOW it will probably be the last time the kit ever gets produced again. And I can find things to do with them.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Jay Chladek

[spaceflightengineer]

I don't agree about the 1/72nd shuttles (Mono stack or Revell orbiter only)- they'll continue to be issued- especially once the remaining orbiters get "stationed" t their final display places (I hesitate to state "the 3 orbiters"- I'll be happy to see the final missions be totally successful (but hold onto the cynicism of an experienced STS engineer who has worked too many space missions, STS and not). I digress- I think the museums associated with where they end up will probably be the trigger for Revellogram to continue issuing the model kits.

For the near future those orbiters are going to be a BIG hit and non-model enthusiasts parents will be clearing them off the shelves for their kids (and secret Dad-kids). We'll benefit from that.

Some shuttle modeling ramblings- details I would like to work whenever I get back to one of my large scale orbiters: extended air data probes, realistic star tracker ports (open would be cool- to see optics representations), detailed OMBUU panel, REALISTIC PLBD hinges, super detailed forward (Xo576) bulkhead- with N2 purge tubes, thermal balnkets, coax to the S=band antennas, realistic PLBD rollers and latches, fully detailed Ku Comm/RADAR antenna deploy assembly, detailed RMS, bay lamp representations, open bay liner showing LRU trays, perhaps PRSD tanks and devices [fuel cells], and one of my favorite details, not used so much on later missions- the "milk stool" on the starboard sill that connects what amounts to an extension cord allowing payloads with CCTV cameras to operate (otherwise a EVA camera could be plugged in there) [that thing was always a problem to obtain for my tests on CCTV], detailed CCTV cameras and pan-tilt units (and-BTW, those cameras and pan-tilt units were the exact same as the CCTV camera on the Lunar roving vehicle- no difference).

If I had the time (and life) I'd love to do some dioramas of Final Assembly at Palmdale. For some reason I have always gotten a kick out of the phase when the wings were being mated to the midbody, just like when the air data probes were being tested (the only time breaking tile was not really a bad thing- they had to "tweak" in the sizing until swinging the probes out didn't have those tiles catch on the surrounding fixed tiles)- a friend had that system and it was worth standing around to see his expression when they'd snap the tiles!. I also have always thought a roll out diorama could be interesting (perhaps more fit for the 1/144th scale models). Also, a dio of the two bays at Palmdale could be cool- with 099 being assembled in the east bay, and Enterprise stored in the adjacent bay (...maybe showing the calibrated hammer testing being done for PLB resonance studies, and have a figure of some dork engineer [that would be me] banging away. Oh well, maybe in my next life.

BP

As for me, I have enough full stacks to keep me happy. All are earmarked for builds with one in the workshop right now as a Moonraker stack and a second one intended to become STS-1 by next April (June at the latest). After doing two of them (Moonraker is 90% assembled), I've got the pitfalls of the kit pretty much down pat. My one stack on display at the Strategic Air and Space Museum still sits proudly in its display case. Technically it is still my model, but I know it is highly unlikely it will ever leave the museum again unless I have to repair something on it. Of course, if the kit does get reissued again, I will still likely add two more to the pile since I KNOW it will probably be the last time the kit ever gets produced again. And I can find things to do with them.

[Jay Chladek]

I can see the orbiters continuing to be issued after shuttle retirement and the smaller scale full stacks. But not necessarily the 1/72 shuttle full stack. At this point though, except for the Monogram full stack, every other kit is either out or coming out. Tamiya has just reissued their 1/100 orbiter and Hasegawa is doing a limited production 1/200 kit with the Hubble telescope in the bay.

[toadwbg]

I got that 1/72 Meteor Productions sheet with all the tiles, but probably won't ever she it.

I'll sell it at cost ( I think it was $ 40?), if someone is interested, PM me.