ThatJeffGuy Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) looks awesome Jeff! I dont suppose you could shoot some test paint of the 84/81 so we can see what it would look like? maybe put it next to some 77/75 tests? Just for poops and giggles I'll do that Jay. I need to go get the MM rust to use for red primer so I'll pick up some 77 while I'm there. I'll spray it on stock and lay it over the wings and I'll let you guys help me decide. Everybody has been so helpful so far...might as well make it a real "group build"....I can use all the help I can get :D Edited December 13, 2006 by ThatJeffGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 very cool, but also, dont do extra work on my account! hee hee! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Not a problem Jay....as I always say I have a lot of time on my hands :) Here it is with 84/81....seems a little bright for a ground camo! I just got back from the LHS and they don't have RLM77 in the MM enamel range ...not even a spot in the rack for it (it goes 75, 76, 78!) but I picked one up from the Acryl range. I just hate working with the MM acrylics....but I also haven't tried them since getting the Iwata and the new regulator/moisture trap. I welcome anybody's opinion.....I probably won't get around to spraying for a couple of days anyway. Also.....I scanned the EagleCal camo layout and calculated the blowup percentage with the model and re-sized the photo in MS Picture editor....but when I print it, it doesn't seem to want to come out any larger than the 8 1/2 x 11 page. Anybody know whats happening there? I don't have PhotoShop :huh: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) too bad you already got the acryl, MM makes an RLM 63 "lichtgrau" enamel which is very similar to RLM 77 "hellgrau" Being a MM enamel guy myself, I now realize I should have mentioned this in a previous post to save you either another trip out to the hobby shop or to save you from using acryllics! (gasp!) sorry! Edited December 13, 2006 by jrallman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 too bad you already got the acryl, MM makes an RLM 63 "lichtgrau" enamel which is very similar to RLM 77 "hellgrau" Being a MM enamel guy myself, I now realize I should have mentioned this in a previous post to save you either another trip out to the hobby shop or to save you from using acryllics! (gasp!) sorry! Aw crap Jay...and I looked right at a bottle of that wondering if it would work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 well, at least to my eye, they look pretty darn close, at least close enough that you could use 63 in place of 77, especially on a late war build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matrixone Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Jeff, If you lighten RLM 75 with enough white it looks close to RLM 77, I tried doing that once and it looked the part. Matrixone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Thanks Matrix Any opinions on upper wing surface colours ? Or should I put you down for 77/75 Maybe there is some credence to the 84 as the light colour....I'm thinking it looks too bright but a light gray would probably be just as bright Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Here are some quick and dirty sample cards for potential combinations. The gray-green 84 and gray 77 are Model Master acrylics. The blue-green 84 is from Life Color. The 80 series greens are Gunze acrylics. Not the prettiest samples but they might help with what the different contrasts look like. Cheers Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Thanks for that Dave! Intersting when you shoot then in B/W....I'm going to do that for the whole model when done too. I guess I'm looking for somebody to just tell me what colour it was....but that ain't gonna happen :D As Jay mentioned I should just pick one and nobody can really dis-prove it. I'm really down to 3 choices assuming I'm going to use 63 Hellgrau instead of 77 lichtgrau (they're very close in FS number too) 63 / 82 (dark green) - from the EagleCal sheet 63 / 75 (grauviolett) - from the Experten 'original' 84 / 81 (braunviolett) - from the Experten 'correction' The 84/81 is starting to kinda grow on me. Originally when I thought it was too light I hadn't considered that the 77 would be just as light. This combination would also unify the wings and the fuse more...however given they were probably manufactured in different locations...the patchwork version may be more appropriate :blink: Since the splattering of bright green was apparently done at the unit (overspray on the prop), I'm going to pretend that they 'unified' it. :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 at least to my eye, i think that either 63/75 or 84/81 would look more correct than 63/82. i guess it is that gray/green seems a bit odd when most luft upper surface camo seemed to have the two colors be of at least similar families of color. My vote is for the 84/81 combo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Ok, since we are taking votes, 82 light green/75 grayviolet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Ok, since we are taking votes, 82 light green/75 grayviolet. :huh: ;) Like I said....it's a 'group' build Dave...can you give me the rundown on the 82/83 mix-up.....when you say light green it's that almost flourescent colour I presume or is it just lighter than 70?. The IPMS Stockholm page says they are often mixed up and I recall hearing that even ModelMaster mixed them up. Does anybody know what the final word is? 82/75 wasn't on my list but it would look nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I believe, and im sure someone more in the know will step in if i have them backwards, but MM has 82 as dark green and 83 as light green. The actual RLM colors are the other way around with 82 being light green and 83 baing dark green. and yes, the 82 light green is a very light green. it is the lighter of the two green colors on the wings of my Dora. of course, since I use MM also, the bottle said 83. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Thanks for clearing that up Jay Especially since I'm using MM enamels......did they fix it in the Acryl range just to confuse us more? I just looked at the chips in the back of Vol 2 of Ken Merrick's book and he has 82 as olive and 83 as dark. His olive is waaaay darker than what comes up in the IPMS Stockholm FS server and the MM light green. It looks more like an olive drab to me Just to confuse things even more :blink: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 (edited) Jeff, Scroll back up to the color cards I posted this morning, the RLM numbers are on each of the colors. RLM 82 light green is really more of a light-medium green. RLM 83 is a dark green and can range from a dark olive to a dark green. If you want to get an idea of what the 75/82 scheme looks like take a trip over to the MM web site, hit the "what's new" page and then scoll down to Wednesday, Dec. 13 and hit the "page 2" from the O'Hare contest. There is a nice D-9 in the 82/75 scheme. HTH, Dave Edited December 15, 2006 by HistnScale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 Jeff,Scroll back up to the color cards I posted this morning, the RLM numbers are on each of the colors. RLM 82 light green is really more of a light-medium green. RLM 82 is a dark green and can range from a dark olive to a dark green. If you want to get an idea of what the 75/82 scheme looks like take a trip over to the MM web site, hit the "what's new" page and then scoll down to Wednesday, Dec. 13 and hit the "page 2" from the O'Hare contest. There is a nice D-9 in the 82/75 scheme. HTH, Dave Cool....what the MM site? I thought this was the only site :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 (edited) ...did they fix it in the Acryl range just to confuse us more? No, they didn't fix it. But as you can see, things are confusing enough anyway. RLM 82 light green is really more of a light-medium green. RLM 82 is a dark green.... I'm guessing that should say, "RLM 83 is a dark green....." Edited December 15, 2006 by David Walker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I'm guessing that should say, "RLM 83 is a dark green....." Yeah, geez Dave, what are you trying to do, make this simple subject confusing or something?!? ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Yeah, geez Dave, what are you trying to do, make this simple subject confusing or something?!? <_< Yup, should say 83, sorry about that. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThatJeffGuy Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 :) I noticed that too but I was raised not to question authority :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 i guess im just a rebel without a clue eh? hee hee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Looks like a couple of volunteers for the Eastern Front. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Looks like a couple of volunteers for the Eastern Front. :o yes, but not till april! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matrixone Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Jeff, The aircraft you are building was built by Mitteldeutsche Metalwerke at Erfurt in February 1945. From the b/w pictures of this aircraft it looks like the wings uppersurfaces are 75 and 83 (dark green), the colors of the tailplanes are unknown but likely the same as the wings. Next year JaPo should have their ''Focke-Wulf Fw 190D camouflage & markings Part 2'' for sale and this volume will cover the production of late Fw 190D aircraft such as the W.Nr. 500500 series. Matrixone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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