Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 We have seen 1:48 MiG-21 kits in OVERLOAD in the recent future. The Academy and Kp/KoPro/OEZ kits were good kits to begin with. There is enough aftermarket stuff available for all of those kits to make them up very well. ------ WHY IS THERE NOT A MiG-21F kit available in 1:48. Sometimes I think some of these manufacturers are from the moon or something. There are so many kits that come out that very few people want and are WAY overpriced and not the ones that have never been made and are really needed. Why do a MiG-21SMT which can only be done in one or two sets of markings, but not do a MiG-21F which can be done in more markings than you can shake a stick at. Just makes no sense. Why has there never been a 1:48 Mi-8/17 but you can find these monsters in EVERY other scale. Just makes no sense. ETC. ETC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Whoa there Nellie.... Eduard have announced (for what that's worth, as we've seen recently) that they're going to be doing the entire Fishbed family, including the F-13. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 That is good news. Now- Why kick off a series with a kit that has been done. Why not kick it off with a kit that has NEVER been done. Would't it be a reasonable presumption that if you make an announcement like that that someone like Trumpeter or the NEW KP could beat you to the punch? It is good news about the "F" but it still makes no sense to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 That is good news. Now- Why kick off a series with a kit that has been done. Why not kick it off with a kit that has NEVER been done. Would't it be a reasonable presumption that if you make an announcement like that that someone like Trumpeter or the NEW KP could beat you to the punch? It is good news about the "F" but it still makes no sense to me. Because for all practical purposes, the MiG-21 has *never* been done in 1/48 in any variant. Every previous kit has had very, very serious inaccuracies, to the point that if you're serious about the MiG-21, they really don't even count in the face of Eduard's effort (the bis nose debacle notwithstanding). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 We have seen 1:48 MiG-21 kits in OVERLOAD in the recent future. The Academy and Kp/KoPro/OEZ kits were good kits to begin with. There is enough aftermarket stuff available for all of those kits to make them up very well. ------ WHY IS THERE NOT A MiG-21F kit available in 1:48. Sometimes I think some of these manufacturers are from the moon or something. There are so many kits that come out that very few people want and are WAY overpriced and not the ones that have never been made and are really needed. Why do a MiG-21SMT which can only be done in one or two sets of markings, but not do a MiG-21F which can be done in more markings than you can shake a stick at. Just makes no sense. Why has there never been a 1:48 Mi-8/17 but you can find these monsters in EVERY other scale. Just makes no sense. ETC. ETC. your are entitled to your opinion, which I disagree to most of what I've read... excepted the fact that the is a desire to see a MiG-21F(F-13) in 1/48 my opinion is that the OEZ is crude and don't worth my time. Academy have an inaccurate (MiG-21?) but modern tooling technology. (which can provide a pleasant modelling time... but still ends as inaccurate) and Revell offers is somewhere in between... it takes no time to match Eduard's Profipack MiG-21 price, when adding AM to a kit... so why spend more money on a wrong donkey? (i'll keep and maybe use one day what i already got in my stack... but won't buy no more for it) ...i rather spend for a far better modelling experience (per buck!) BTW, SMT is my favorite MiG-21 variant, and it have a lots of common part with the S, SM, MF variants... so, in tooling terms, IT Totally makes sense to do the SMT after the MF kit for Eduard. what makes no sense, is to do subjects without target market. choppers are nice... but it seems that there is not a vast enough market yet to invest massively in new injection tooling... even if a mi-8/17 family would be welcome... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) i only know one 1/35 tooling of the mi-8/17... and it is trumpeter's... 1/72 tooling cost half of 1/48 toolings. 1/72 is a vast market you'll find nearly everything in 1/72, no matter what... 1/48, is, the AfterMarket producers favorite scale! but, if you search hard, you'll find a 1/48 mi-8, it exist, but is rare, then expensive... from unknown company... seems to be inaccurate, btw... but maybe it won't bother you? Edited December 2, 2011 by mingwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) your are entitled to your opinion, which I disagree to most of what I've read... excepted the fact that the is a desire to see a MiG-21F(F-13) in 1/48 my opinion is that the OEZ is crude and don't worth my time. Academy have an inaccurate (MiG-21?) but modern tooling technology. (which can provide a pleasant modelling time... but still ends as inaccurate) and Revell offers is somewhere in between... it takes no time to match Eduard's Profipack MiG-21 price, when adding AM to a kit... so why spend more money on a wrong donkey? (i'll keep and maybe use one day what i already got in my stack... but won't buy no more for it) ...i rather spend for a far better modelling experience (per buck!) BTW, SMT is my favorite MiG-21 variant, and it have a lots of common part with the S, SM, MF variants... so, in tooling terms, IT Totally makes sense to do the SMT after the MF kit for Eduard. what makes no sense, is to do subjects without target market. choppers are nice... but it seems that there is not a vast enough market yet to invest massively in new injection tooling... even if a mi-8/17 family would be welcome... I agree with you on virtually all those points. What my point is; that most people that are interested and have been in the MiG-21 have spent quite a bit of money on one of the previous kits and all the extras already, myself included. I have a minimum of three each of the other kits in my stash which I have had for years. Since this is a hobby to us an is nothing more than wasting time to all outside of this hobby, than I will just waste that time on a kit I already have and not throw away more money in these hard economic times. I have taken 4 pay cuts in the last four years. 50-60-70 $ is a lot of money to spend on a hobby for one kit. I am building a MiG-19S at the moment. I have both the Trumpeter and the HiPM kit in my stash. I chose to build the HiPM kit because I find it more challenging, mentally stimulating and more fun than just something that snaps together right out of the box (besides, the outline on the HiPM is quite a bit more accurate). I would rather put together something that is crude but has an accurate outline than something that fits like a dream but the outline is off. I built the HiPM MiG-21UM and I was quite happy with the results and with the endeavor in general. OK it was based on the OEZ MiG-21 kit and the wing had to be thinned out by 33% but it was only work and an exercise in skill. Isn't that what this hobby is about anyways? I was going to use the nose from one of these kits to do an "F" since I have a couple more unbuilt in my stash. Notice the thinned out wing ant vertical stab on the model. It just took work, that's all. Edited December 2, 2011 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) i only know one 1/35 tooling of the mi-8/17... and it is trumpeter's... 1/72 tooling cost half of 1/48 toolings. 1/72 is a vast market you'll find nearly everything in 1/72, no matter what... 1/48, is, the AfterMarket producers favorite scale! but, if you search hard, you'll find a 1/48 mi-8, it exist, but is rare, then expensive... from unknown company... seems to be inaccurate, btw... but maybe it won't bother you? I know of that kit. Have you seen it? I would rather put together ten vacu-formed kits than that thing. Edited December 2, 2011 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 nice twin seater ok i have to agree on the price issue, for me, in Canada, paying 60$ for a GREAT 1/48 mig-21 isn't an issue at all... but understand it can be, for someone else. especially outside of the Western world... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 nice twin seater ok i have to agree on the price issue, for me, in Canada, paying 60$ for a GREAT 1/48 mig-21 isn't an issue at all... but understand it can be, for someone else. especially outside of the Western world... I took a 40% pay-cut over the last four years. Time (and some skill) I have money is getting to be in short supply though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 ...most people that are interested and have been in the MiG-21 have spent quite a bit of money on one of the previous kits and all the extras already Not so in my case. I **love** the MiG-21, but I've only ever owned on OEZ and one Academy kit, simply because they're both so inaccurate that I didn't want to waste my time with them. I kept hoping Hasegawa or somebody (Eduard as it turned out) would do the Fishbed justice in 1/48. I think Eduard were absolutely correct in doing the MF first. The amount of new tooling required for them to do a first generation airplane (almost 100%) means that they had to make a decision and start someplace. The MF was very widely used, carried a stunning variety of color schemes, and is iconic of the last third of the 20th Century as far as I'm concerned. I'm anxious to see first and second generation Fishbeds for sure, but I'm happy with the MF, SMT, and bis (warts and all). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I know of that kit. Have you seen it? I would rather put together ten vacu-formed kits than that thing. yes, and it is very soviet-toyish crude... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Here is my 1:144 21PFM I finished about a month ago. Edited December 17, 2011 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 Not so in my case. I **love** the MiG-21, but I've only ever owned on OEZ and one Academy kit, simply because they're both so inaccurate that I didn't want to waste my time with them. I kept hoping Hasegawa or somebody (Eduard as it turned out) would do the Fishbed justice in 1/48. I think Eduard were absolutely correct in doing the MF first. The amount of new tooling required for them to do a first generation airplane (almost 100%) means that they had to make a decision and start someplace. The MF was very widely used, carried a stunning variety of color schemes, and is iconic of the last third of the 20th Century as far as I'm concerned. I'm anxious to see first and second generation Fishbeds for sure, but I'm happy with the MF, SMT, and bis (warts and all). i do agree that the OEZ/KP kit is CRUDE at best, but in outline it is quite accurate. The academy kit with the available spine and new tail is at that point also quite accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 i do agree that the OEZ/KP kit is CRUDE at best, but in outline it is quite accurate. The academy kit with the available spine and new tail is at that point also quite accurate. I'm not going to get into detail specifics (well covered elsewhere), but I'm afraid you're misinformed on both counts. Both kits have very serious outline, proportion, shape, and other discrepancies, not just crude details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm not going to get into detail specifics (well covered elsewhere), but I'm afraid you're misinformed on both counts. Both kits have very serious outline, proportion, shape, and other discrepancies, not just crude details. Well, I must concede on the academy kit. I did take a better look at it and you are right. The Nose shape is all wrong and so is the other end. NOW here is the big question the academy kit is almost 12 scale inches longer than the OEZ kit. The *** end and the nose shape are good on the OEZ kit. I would suspect the Academy kit is too long???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 The Academy kit suffers from all the same proportion problems as the Fujimi 1/72 kits (hmmm.... wonder why?). The OEZ kit's fuselage is slab-sided, and the entire canopy is wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 The Academy kit suffers from all the same proportion problems as the Fujimi 1/72 kits (hmmm.... wonder why?). The OEZ kit's fuselage is slab-sided, and the entire canopy is wrong. What do you mean by Slab Sided. The MiG-21 did not follow the area rule yet. Just like the Su-7 did not and come to think of it the Su-22 also did not. Or do you mean up by the canopy? The Academy nose and back end almost look comical now that I have taken a closer look at it. The exhaust tapers down WAY too much and the front end droops. Well that is OK I still have 4 of the OEZ kits and a good moto-tool and sharp hobby-knives. i might even do some kit bashing since I have plenty of both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Just that - it's too slab-sided. The real thing is oval, but not like that. Also, OEZ has the entire main canopy sitting on top of the fuselage oval rather than the lower sill being part of the fuselage shape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Just that - it's too slab-sided. The real thing is oval, but not like that. Also, OEZ has the entire main canopy sitting on top of the fuselage oval rather than the lower sill being part of the fuselage shape. I see what you mean about the canopy. Nothing that a good replacement one and a file cant fix. The big question is which is the closer to the the right width. The OEZ is .5" wide and the Academy is .63" wide. That is 24" vs. 30" in scale. Edited December 2, 2011 by Otto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 I looked at the drawings in my 4+ Publications and the Academy canopy looks better in shape and size than the OEZ. I can than use that canopy on the OEZ kit and widen up the spine a bit. As I said, "Kit Bash" "If you got it, use it" I think that I will use the Academy wings also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) INothing that a good replacement one and a file cant fix. The big question is which is the closer to the the right width. The OEZ is .5" wide and the Academy is .63" wide. That is 24" vs. 30" in scale. Replacement by what ? You may find some interesting things via the "The "1/48 Eduard MIG-21 MF Bis SMT" topic: a summary" topic. Browse through the list of post #1 and #8. You'll notice that post #449 may be of interest. Her the link given there: http://sternlaurent....duardVsOez.html The Academy canopy is mishapen as the front should be wider than the rear. "1/48 Eduard MIG-21 MF Bis SMT", post #200 -> http://s362974870.on...9 The +4 drawings don't look good when you compare them to real aircraft photos. Edited December 2, 2011 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 Well- I guess at this point "It makes no never-mind" about the 21MF to me. I still have 2-3 Mig-19s to build and mi 1/48 scratchbuilt Gemini/Titan and a Su-7 before I want to build another MiG-21. by that time the Eduard 21F should be out and I WILL buy that one. Than I will worry about the 21MF and 21PFM. I still want to do a MiG-17 and a Su-22-M4 Besides all the tings in my signature list that i have already started. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david sMiGielski Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I know of that kit. Have you seen it? I would rather put together ten vacu-formed kits than that thing. I'd build ten vacuformed kits for one new-tooled, 1/48 MiG-23. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Otto Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 A nice MiG-23 would be Sweeeeeeeeeet. I have a couple each of the ESCI and Hobbycrft kits I want to do at some point. since there are no references for the BN version with the B or C wing I have no idea on what the wings looked like. I believe that the MiG-23 and MiG-27 kits all use the same wings, which is not correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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