Pierre Sacha Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi, Just received the new 1/48 Trumpeter MLD and was wondering about the seat. The kit gives you the option of either the KM-1 or a K-36. Was the latter ever installed in a late variant MiG-23 and if so from what model. Thanks for any help. Pierre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 KM-1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 KM-1 To be more precise the seat is KM-1M in standard MiG-23's. The KM-1 seat was very different from the KM-1M. The KM-1 was onyl used in very early versions of the MiG-23S and M models. The K-36DM seat was never used in the MiG-23 aircraft. But late MiG-23's (as well as late MiG-21Bis and late MiG-21UM aicraft) also had the "black" version of the KM-1M, the very exact name of the seat was KM-1M Series 2. One has to differentiat as there were some KM-1M seats which had black leather upholstery but they were jsut standard KM-1M's with black paint replacing the blue-grey original colour. The KM-1M Series 2 seat was the last version of the KM-1 family of ejection seats and was different in many ways from the KM-1M and not only in its colour. I have not seen any aftermarket producers making a proper "KM-1M Series 2" seat. :( They dont really care about it. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thanks for giving a thorough answer Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi Pierre Sacha, One more thing. I see that you are in Namibia. Not far from you (??) there is a "KM-1M Series 2" ejection seat on public display. The Angolan MiG-21 bis on show in South Africa in a museum has exactly this seat. I know looking at it from here in Europe it is just a short strol from Namibia but it could be very far in actual life. Still the seat is there. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Sacha Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hi Pierre Sacha, One more thing. I see that you are in Namibia. Not far from you (??) there is a "KM-1M Series 2" ejection seat on public display. The Angolan MiG-21 bis on show in South Africa in a museum has exactly this seat. I know looking at it from here in Europe it is just a short strol from Namibia but it could be very far in actual life. Still the seat is there. Best regards Gabor Hi Gabor, what a coincidence, when I was in the South African Air Force in 1989 I was one of the first people to see MiG-21BIS 340 after she crash landed in Namibia. She was put on a flat bed and brought to our base and I got a chance to see her up close and I can very well remember the black seat. Thanks a lot for your clear explanation. Pierre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hi Gabor, what a coincidence, when I was in the South African Air Force in 1989 I was one of the first people to see MiG-21BIS 340 after she crash landed in Namibia. She was put on a flat bed and brought to our base and I got a chance to see her up close and I can very well remember the black seat. Thanks a lot for your clear explanation. Pierre Hi Pierre, Well it is a very small world we are in! :) This is an intersting story from you! Its good to hear from you! There is a walk around photo collection on the net of that aircraft and there is a view from high above and from the front where you can see into the cockpit, onto the seat. The KM-1M Series 2 seats had a very different seat back panel for the parachute, the padding was also very different and the harness system was also completely different from the original KM-1M version. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 @Gabor Am I right in assuming, the seat below is a series 2? Cheers, Erik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 @Gabor Am I right in assuming, the seat below is a series 2? Cheers, Erik Hi Erik, Yes, this is a KM-1M Seriea 2 seat. The only problem is that the harness is not the way it should be. The ones we had even had the ejection handle made from matt black rubber instead of the dull/pale red rubber of the original KM-1M. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks for putting the record straight, Gabor. :thumbsup:/> Just like you said, the harness somewhat confused me. The ones we had even had the ejection handle made from matt black rubber instead of the dull/pale red rubber of the original KM-1M. Pretty much like some Finnish 21bis seats: Souce: Wikimedia Again, thank you, Erik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The back of the seat was modified to make it safer. This is the only way you can differentiate between KM-1M and KM-1M Seria 2 seats based on its looks. OK if you have a closer look there is also an oval tag on the left hand side which gives the exact designation, but when the seat is in the aircraft it is not possible to inspect it. The black colour could be confusing, there are photos on the net and in the Warpaint Series No.91 book on the Fishbed (have to say one of the best books on the MiG-21 :) , OK apart from the scale drawings in the back of it which are not so perfect :( ) on page 23 there is a photo of a Croatian KM-1M but it is just a standard KM-1M painted black. Dont confuse the two versions. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Is that the Croatian seat you're talking about? Black KM-1M Found that picture on a Hungarian website. Erik Edited January 30, 2015 by Airfixer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Is that the Croatian seat you're talking about? Black KM-1M Found that picture on a Hungarian website. Erik Hi Erik, Yes, this is the one. It was on display at one of the airshows. Well, concerning someone using it on a Hungarian website. I am sorry that this happens, but there is nothing one can do against it. People in Hungary see that "some" people can get away with EVERYTHING, stealing milions from European union funds or simply from our own citizens, so they say what the heck I can use that photo from the net, "I will get away with it too". :( :( :( :( Its no accident that I have Copyright watermarks on all of my photos, or if I know who is it from, I will ask them first if I can use it and even then will have their name on it if used. Unfortunately many people feel that they can use anything as their own and dont give a sxxxxt if it is someone elses. Even here on ARC there were two such Hungarian persons adding their own Copyright logo to "borrowed" photos. Fortunately they are no longer here! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Sacha Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Thanks everyone for the info - why would Trumpie put a K-36D in the box? Is it also in the other boxings? Pierre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Thanks everyone for the info - why would Trumpie put a K-36D in the box? Pierre This is a million dollar question! :bandhead2: It is possible that they have seen that there is some kind of black seat in some Floggers so they imagined that it must be a K-36. But you will find K-36 seats in other kits too where the manufacture had no idea what it had and the easy way was to put the most famous seat, the K-36. As to differences between the different versions of the K-36 family of seats, most manufacturers dont usually care about the versions. :( Going back to your original question: ask Trump, the easiest way to find out! :D Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Going back to your original question: ask Trump, the easiest way to find out! Er asking is easy but getting an answer is something else. That probably won't happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) When they researched the MLD's forward fuselage (viewing an actual MLD from orbit in their secret scale model research space station), the bang seat looked like a K-36 to them. However, one of the trumponauts expressed some serious doubts, objecting, MiG-23s were only equipped with Mikoyan KM-1 series seats. Accordingly, they decided to play safe, adding both seats. The trumponaut mentioned above was later transferred to Zhengdefu for disciplinary reasons... Edited February 2, 2015 by Airfixer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moche Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Good to see people are still building this bird! Maybe a bit of topic but since you guys seem to know a lot about the MiG-23 I wanted to know if some of you ever tried to turn the Academy MiG-23S into a MLD? And what should i watch out for while making the MLD version? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Good to see people are still building this bird! Maybe a bit of topic but since you guys seem to know a lot about the MiG-23 I wanted to know if some of you ever tried to turn the Academy MiG-23S into a MLD? And what should i watch out for while making the MLD version? Sort of. I did it in 1/72, with a Hasegawa bird which is almost same kit as the Academy. In 1/72, that is.... As far as the seat, I seem to recall the Monogram F-8 having a Tomcat seat instead.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lyash Igor Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 On the MLD mounted seat KM-1M (as said Gabor) only gray. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Good to see people are still building this bird! Maybe a bit of topic but since you guys seem to know a lot about the MiG-23 I wanted to know if some of you ever tried to turn the Academy MiG-23S into a MLD? And what should i watch out for while making the MLD version? Converting the Academy MS into an MLD will be quite a challenge. Pretty much like converting a Bf 109E into a Bf 109K... Here on ARC a fellow modeller tried his luck a couple of years ago, converting the Academy kit into an ML - quite successfully/"close enough": http://www.arcforums...howtopic=210476 As to the MLD, you'll have to go some extra miles in order to make it look "close enough". Accordingly, I'm going to address only the most prominent features. A comprehensive to-do list might become rather disencouraging. MUST-HAVE - BVP 50-60 chaff/flare dispensers - modifying the wing glove's leading edge to replicate the MLD's unique "dog tooth": http://data3.primepo...44_45_of_48.jpg - new fuselage-radome joint OPTIONAL - partial filling/sanding and rescribing of the rear fuselage - new wing and fuselage pylons from scratch - replicating the ML/MLD's distinctive nose droop - rescribing the entire forward fuselage - etc., ad nauseam... Cheers, Erik Edited February 16, 2015 by Airfixer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Sacha Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 On the MLD mounted seat KM-1M (as said Gabor) only gray. Spasiba Lyash! Pierre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moche Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Converting the Academy MS into an MLD will be quite a challenge. Pretty much like converting a Bf 109E into a Bf 109K... Here on ARC a fellow modeller tried his luck a couple of years ago, converting the Academy kit into an ML - quite successfully/"close enough": http://www.arcforums...howtopic=210476 As to the MLD, you'll have to go some extra miles in order to make it look "close enough". Accordingly, I'm going to address only the most prominent features. A comprehensive to-do list might become rather disencouraging. MUST-HAVE - BVP 50-60 chaff/flare dispensers - modifying the wing glove's leading edge to replicate the MLD's unique "dog tooth": http://data3.primepo...44_45_of_48.jpg - new fuselage-radome joint OPTIONAL - partial filling/sanding and rescribing of the rear fuselage - new wing and fuselage pylons from scratch - replicating the ML/MLD's distinctive nose droop - rescribing the entire forward fuselage - etc., ad nauseam... Cheers, Erik Thank you for your advice! Seems a lot of work for something that might resemble an MLD :o Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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