AGM-65's on F/A-18C

[serendip]

Hi,

 

I saw some pictures on Seaforces.org of a VFA-87 Hornet carrying an AGM-65's on station 8 and a dumb (Mk83?) bomb on station 2:
https://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VFA/Strike-Fighter-Squadron-87.htm

 

Does anyone know which target markers / trackers would be carried on stations 4 and / or 6 on a mission like that? It's hard to tell from the pictures.

 

Also I'm wondering if the chaff dispensers just aft of the inlets would be single or dual in that time frame. The pictures are over Iraq in 2014.

 

Thanks all.

[ST0RM]

Station 4 has the TGP, hence why #3 is empty. Station 6 is most likely empty as well, given that 1 & 9 aren't carrying AIM-9s. 
Unsure of the buckets. 

FYI, the AGM-65s are E-model, laser guided. 

[Warthog85]

AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR is installed on Station 4

Station 2 carries a GBU-38 JDAM

Station 3 can carrier bombs or missiles but no fuel tank to have better field of view for the ATFLIR

Dual chaff/flare dispenser was introduced with production Lot18 starting with F/A-18C 165171. Older jets were also upgraded.

 

[serendip]

Thanks both,

@Warthog, The BU numbers are consecutive? I plan to build 164250 - that would make it single dispensers?

 

Thanks,

[Warthog85]

I also think that single dispensers are correct for the 2014 deployment

On one of the photos you can see single dispenser on another VFA-87 Hornet and as far as I know there was normally no mix within an squadron.

https://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VFA/Strike-Fighter-Squadron-87.htm

Many older F/A-18 (163985-164980) were retrofit with dual dispenser after 2013.

 

[serendip]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:10 PM, Warthog85 said:

AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR is installed on Station 4

Station 2 carries a GBU-38 JDAM

Station 3 can carrier bombs or missiles but no fuel tank to have better field of view for the ATFLIR

Dual chaff/flare dispenser was introduced with production Lot18 starting with F/A-18C 165171. Older jets were also upgraded.

 

HI,

 

So the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR would be there for the GBU-38's if I understand correctly?

 

Also I'm curious if the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR would also serve the larger JDAM's and if these could be carried by the F-18C. 

 

And would the AGM-65 be internally guided and not require guidance from any kind of exterior pod?

 

I'm also wondering if GBU-12's would work with the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR or would need another targeting pod and if CBU-87's would need nothing at at except gravity (as these are dumb bombs?

 

And lastly thanks for the wealth of knowledge everyone is so generous to share.

 

Marc.

 

 

 

 

[Joe Hegedus]

5 hours ago, serendip said:

HI,

 

So the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR would be there for the GBU-38's if I understand correctly?

 

Also I'm curious if the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR would also serve the larger JDAM's and if these could be carried by the F-18C. 

 

And would the AGM-65 be internally guided and not require guidance from any kind of exterior pod?

 

I'm also wondering if GBU-12's would work with the AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR or would need another targeting pod and if CBU-87's would need nothing at at except gravity (as these are dumb bombs?

 

And lastly thanks for the wealth of knowledge everyone is so generous to share.

 

Marc.

 

 

 

 

The presence of the ATFLIR does not by itself indicate that anything else loaded on the jet requires its use.  Once it's loaded, it tends to stay there unless there is a specific need to take it off.

 

GBU-38 does not require a designator, it is a GPS weapon. Same for other JDAMs (there are JDAMS that have a laser-guide option, but those have different designations from GBU-31/32/38, and would require a target designation from somewhere, not necessarily the launch aircraft, to use the laser option).

 

AGM-65 (the laser version) requires a target designator, again not necessarily the launching aircraft.  It could be another aircraft, or a ground-based designator.  The ATFLIR can fulfil the designator requirement.

 

GBU-12 require a designator (unless it's a dual-mode GBU-12, which incorporates GPS guidance like a JDAM) but the same comment re. designators applies.

 

F-18s don't use CBU-87s.  At least, US F-18s don't.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Joe Hegedus

[Warthog85]

F/A-18C can carrie also the larger JDAMs like GBU-31

AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR is also used to generate GPS coordinates for the JDAM.

CBU-87 was used by the Air Force.

Navy jets, including the Hornet, used the Mk 20 Rockeye II.

[GW8345]

All Mk 20 / CBU-99 / CBU-100 Rockeye's have been replaced by the CBU-99B/B Rockeye in Aug 2008.

 

ATFLIR is not required to carry and employ JDAM's, the aircraft can generate GPS coordinates.

[serendip]

Thanks all,

 

That makes everything a lot clearer. Joe, thanks for the explanations. As I understand then, the target designator as for example shown on some of the C's on the SeaForces site (link below) would be there for the AGM-65e and (probably) not for the JDAM which is GPS guided although as Warthog writes the coordinates could be provided by the designator.

 

https://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VFA/Strike-Fighter-Squadron-87.htm

 

 

[serendip]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:41 PM, Warthog85 said:

F/A-18C can carrie also the larger JDAMs like GBU-31

AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR is also used to generate GPS coordinates for the JDAM.

CBU-87 was used by the Air Force.

Navy jets, including the Hornet, used the Mk 20 Rockeye II.

Hi Warthog,

 

I'm wondering then could (and would) the 'C carry the the GBU-31 on station 2 with an AGM-65 on station 8 (with a tank on 7 and nothing on 3) or would this create asymmetry issues?

 

Thanks,

[serendip]

On 8/10/2023 at 10:03 PM, GW8345 said:

All Mk 20 / CBU-99 / CBU-100 Rockeye's have been replaced by the CBU-99B/B Rockeye in Aug 2008.

 

ATFLIR is not required to carry and employ JDAM's, the aircraft can generate GPS coordinates.

Thanks GW,

 

The munitions you mention in your first sentance are all dumb bombs, so no designator used?

 

Marc.

 

[Warthog85]

Hi Serendip

for A2G missions the targeting pod is a standard loadout. So you should install one.

I have seen no F/A-18C photos where they carry AGM-65 together with GBU-31.

Normaly AGM-65 is loaded together with GBU-12, GBU-38 or GBU-54.

You also can use 3x GBU-31.

 

BTW

When you search for Sniper, Litening and ATFLIR targeting pods you will find infos that they are used to generate quality targeting coordinates for JDAM.

 

 

[GW8345]

16 hours ago, serendip said:

Hi Warthog,

 

I'm wondering then could (and would) the 'C carry the the GBU-31 on station 2 with an AGM-65 on station 8 (with a tank on 7 and nothing on 3) or would this create asymmetry issues?

 

Thanks,

Yes, this is a legal load, did they ever do it, who knows.

[GW8345]

16 hours ago, serendip said:

Thanks GW,

 

The munitions you mention in your first sentance are all dumb bombs, so no designator used?

 

Marc.

 

Correct, they are "dumb" weapons so no designator is require, however, as mention above, they are usually carried no matter what is being flown (unless it is not permitted next to what is being flown on station 3)

 

Also, it is legal to fly 4 x GBU-31 (sta 2/3/7/8) and a ATFLIR Pod on station 4, the pilot will just have a reduced field of view for the pod but it is a legal load.

 

Post what you want to load on it and I can tell you if it's a legal load. 😉

 

GW

[serendip]

20 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Correct, they are "dumb" weapons so no designator is require, however, as mention above, they are usually carried no matter what is being flown (unless it is not permitted next to what is being flown on station 3)

 

Also, it is legal to fly 4 x GBU-31 (sta 2/3/7/8) and a ATFLIR Pod on station 4, the pilot will just have a reduced field of view for the pod but it is a legal load.

 

Post what you want to load on it and I can tell you if it's a legal load. 😉

 

GW

Thanks so much GW!

 

I think I'll go for a GBU-31 on station 2 with an AGM-65 on station 8 (with a tank on 7 and nothing on 3) as mentioned above. The designator would be on the same side as the JDAM I would guess?

 

Would a Sparrow be carries opposite the designator or would a SParrow be meaningless in the role?

 

Traditional Sidewinders on the tips or AIM-9X's?

 

Location and timeframe would be Iraq 2014.

 

Thanks.

[GW8345]

4 hours ago, serendip said:

Thanks so much GW!

 

I think I'll go for a GBU-31 on station 2 with an AGM-65 on station 8 (with a tank on 7 and nothing on 3) as mentioned above. The designator would be on the same side as the JDAM I would guess?

 

Would a Sparrow be carries opposite the designator or would a SParrow be meaningless in the role?

 

Traditional Sidewinders on the tips or AIM-9X's?

 

Location and timeframe would be Iraq 2014.

 

Thanks.

The designator pod would go on the left cheek station (left intake station / station 4). For that time frame they would be carrying AIM-9X's on the wingtip's and you can put a Sparrow on the right cheek station (right intake station / station 6). I would also recommend a centerline (station 5) drop tank along with a tank on station 7 (this was called double ugly), F-18's are famous for needing all the gas they can get. For station 3, I recommend an empty pylon on it, they normally won't remove the pylons unless they absolutely had to so an empty pylon would be more realistic. You don't have to put a pylon on station 3 so your choice, either way it will be a legal load.

hth

GW

[serendip]

20 hours ago, GW8345 said:

The designator pod would go on the left cheek station (left intake station / station 4). For that time frame they would be carrying AIM-9X's on the wingtip's and you can put a Sparrow on the right cheek station (right intake station / station 6). I would also recommend a centerline (station 5) drop tank along with a tank on station 7 (this was called double ugly), F-18's are famous for needing all the gas they can get. For station 3, I recommend an empty pylon on it, they normally won't remove the pylons unless they absolutely had to so an empty pylon would be more realistic. You don't have to put a pylon on station 3 so your choice, either way it will be a legal load.

hth

GW

Thanks, that's perfect GW, very helpful and much impressed at your knowlegde.

Which mark of Sparrow would be expected in a 2014 timeframe?

 

Marc.

[GW8345]

5 hours ago, serendip said:

Thanks, that's perfect GW, very helpful and much impressed at your knowlegde.

Which mark of Sparrow would be expected in a 2014 timeframe?

 

Marc.

For the Sparrow - AIM-7M

 

Always a pleasure to help out. 😉

 

GW

[Warthog85]

2014 the AIM-7M was only carried during training missions, right?

For combat missions AIM-9X + AIM-120B/C AMRAAM were loaded.

[serendip]

Also the AGM-65 launch rail - is that universal (except for the triple launch rail on F-4's) or would every aircraft have it's own unique launch rail?

 

Y=Thanks.

 

 

[Warthog85]

The LAU-117 missile rail is standard for the AGM-65 and used by all aircrafts which can carry the Maverick.

 

[GW8345]

In 2014 the Sparrow was still a front line missile and was carried occasionally in combat.

 

For the LAU-117, as stated above, is used by every aircraft that is authorized to carry/employ the AGM-65 Maverick.

 

 

[serendip]

Gents,

 

Need some help again. Seeing as the Kinetic instructions including the color call outs are somewhat hit and miss to say the least, any ideas what colors the AIM-9X, AIM7, AGM-65, and targeting pod colors would be over Iraq in 2014 under a VFA-87 Hornet?

 

Thanks,

Marc.

[Dave Roof]

1 hour ago, serendip said:

Gents,

 

Need some help again. Seeing as the Kinetic instructions including the color call outs are somewhat hit and miss to say the least, any ideas what colors the AIM-9X, AIM7, AGM-65, and targeting pod colors would be over Iraq in 2014 under a VFA-87 Hornet?

 

Thanks,

Marc.

 

Just to clarify, this part has absolutely nothing to do with the first part of the question : colors would be over Iraq in 2014 under a VFA-87 Hornet?

 

The standard colors of those missiles are FS 36375. Where they're flown and the squadrons carrying them are completely irrelevant.