New To Modeling...

[EnZoNaMi]

Hi, everybody. I'm fairly new to modeling and to these forums. I've built an aircraft model before but it's really not that good.

I have questions, because I'm going to start another model, a 1:48 Blue Angels F/A-18 (Revell kit) and I want it to look good.

I know some of you huys might laugh at me, but here are some questions. :D :)

What is 'finish'?

What is enamel thinner?

and

What is primer?

Furthermore, at what steps of a model do I use these things? I'm assuming that the finish is used at the end. :lol:

:)

[Liberator24]

Welcome to the group NAMI!!

Here is my suggestions I have picked up from these awesome fllow ARC'ers:

Finish: Future Floor Polishfor gloss coat, then Flat Laquer for the final after decals.

Enamel Thinner: Usually I use Testor's for the thinner, also airbrushing.

Primer: Used before you paint the main color on your aircraft. I used Tamiya primer in a can....

Hope that helps, and I know the guys will add some things for you as well.

[Ollie T-Y]

Finish : the effect of the paint or coat

EG gloss, Matte or satin (in between gloss and matte)

Enamel Thinner : it thins the paint!! you usually have to do this for airbrushing, otherwise the paint splutters out, and thats not what you want.

Primer : Its a coat of special paint which helps other paints grip onto it

I dont use primer, but you use it before the first coat of paint goes on

Enamel thinners are mixed with the paint to go on ( Dont use Too Much!)

Finish, put over the paint, at the end

Hope this helps!

[f14peter]

Welcome! Welcome! Welcome!

Just to add what the other gents have mentioned and explain a little about why these terms are relevant . . .

FINISH can mean several things, although often it refers to the texture (if you will) of the surface of paints and/or clearcoats. Most common references are gloss/glossy which is shiny, semi-gloss which is less but still a little bit shiny, and matte/dull/flat, which isn't shiny at all. This is relevent because most military aircraft (Save some, such as a Blue Angel aircraft!) are dull, as in not shiny and most model paint is dull. However, decals must be applied to a glossy surface to prevent "Silvering", which is the clear part of the decal (Which should be invisible) showing up. Common application is to either paint with glossy paints or more commonly apply a glossy clear-coat on the model after painting, apply decals, then apply clear coats afterwards to achieve the finish (gloss, semi-gloss, or flat) you desire. This is important because that the surface of a dull paint/clearcoat is actually quite rough. If you looked at it through a microscope, it would appear like a rock desert or very course sandpaper. This is what makes it dull, the light hits the surface and gets trapped in all the nooks and crannies, and therefore not reflected off of the surface. These same nooks and crannies also trap air, which is what makes decals "Silver". Conversely, a gloss surface is very very smooth with nothing to trap light/air.

ENAMEL THINNER is just that, it makes enamel paint thinner. Most modeling paint out of the jar is too thick to airbrush, so it must be thinned before using.

PRIMER is paint, but isn't paint. It's usually used to go between the actual surface and following coats of paint. Sometimes paint doesn't work too well if applied directly to the plastic and thus primer gives the paint a good surface to stick to, it can be used to check and see if your seams and gluework are clean (Thus allowing you to go back and fix it before applying final coats of paint), and it can be used to give the plastic and any puttywork a uniform color.

Best tip I can give you . . . go to the ARC homepage and click the "Hints 'n' Tips" link on the page banner, that will take you to a page filled with all sorts of advice.

Edited July 9, 2006 by f14peter

[MaRiO FDZ]

What is 'finish'?

What is enamel thinner?

What is primer?

Furthermore, at what steps of a model do I use these things?

Welcome aboard man!!!

QUick Answers

Enamel Thinner - Thinner. Except there are different types of Paints, Acrilics (water based) and Enamels and Laquers (oil based). Laquers are stronger. If you use Enamel Thinner on Laquers it won't work. It is stated on the bottle of the paint which one is it, if laquer or enamel.

Primer is a preliminary paint coat (or a similar substance) to check how did you sand your model. Any seams not properly sanded will show up like a sore thumb on the primer. Plus, it helps paint to stick better into the model.

Steps?? Just prime after you finish building and before painting.

Take Care!!

[EnZoNaMi]

Thanks guys for the warm welcome, and for everybody's advice.

So, this is what I've picked up.

If I'm using a brush instead of an airbrush, I don't need enamel thinner...?

I got the primer down, simply just apply it before painting.

And the glossy coat, apply it to the model before I apply the decals...?

Is that correct?

[Liberator24]

you gonna fit in just fine!!

Welcome, Brother! Let the good times roll!!!

[David Walker]

Thanks guys for the warm welcome, and for everybody's advice.

So, this is what I've picked up.

If I'm using a brush instead of an airbrush, I don't need enamel thinner...?

I got the primer down, simply just apply it before painting.

And the glossy coat, apply it to the model before I apply the decals...?

Is that correct?

Yes, yes and yes, and welcome to ARC. There isn't anything you can't get an answer to here. And most times it's even the right answer!

Edited July 9, 2006 by David Walker

[EnZoNaMi]

Thanks everybody. ^_^

Im goin' to buy all the stuff I need tomorrow, and man this place is cool there is even a critiquing forum, that should be quite helpful for after I finish this model. So far everybody here seems to be quite friendly. B) Thanks again everybody. :D

And, yes! Let the good times roll! :lol: <_<

[Fishwelding]

I think many modelers will tell you that they do not consider primer absolutely necessary for most applications. Enamel paints by Testors or Humbrol, for example, are formulated fairly well to stick to styrene (model) plastic. If you're hunting to see if you've successfully filled/hidden a seam between parts, you can brush on a local spot of primer (or Testors Silver works, too, in helping to find flaws), and sand it away before applying the final paint scheme. Some people swear by a full coat of primer every time, but many others dispense with this added step. Try both and see which you prefer.

And if you can do it, you might want to get some enamel thinner anyway. Sometimes paints need thinning, even to work well off a bristle-brush. (There's some real pros here with brush-painting--search ARC's forums on the subject and you'll be learning from true masters). Paint companies like Testors and Humbrol sell their own thinners, which are "specially formulated" to work with their paints. Other people simply buy DIY, or Hardware store mineral spirits or white spirits for these paints. Even acrylic lines, such as Tamiya's widely popular series, or Polly Scale, sell their own thinners that they claim are better than simply distilled water or rubbing alcohol.

Above all, don't hesitate to ask questions here. And don't worry about your model being 'really not that good." It's better than you think, and you only get better at building models by building models.

[EnZoNaMi]

Thankyou, Fishwelding, that was incouraging. Just to clarify I am using Testors paints, and I already have an unopened bottle of thinner, but I don't exactaly know how to use it. Do I just poor a little into the paint jar itself?

Another question, what exactaly is the difference between using brushes by hand and air brushing? Does airbrushing give a different effect or look to the model?

[kenshin]

first welcome to ARC Enzonami!. Airbrushing tends to give you more control over you model. Also you can do things such as pre-shading which is almost impossible to do with a brush. Pre-shading is when you apply a dark color before your final coat of paint to simulate weathering,

fading, dirt etc.

[Fishwelding]

Thankyou, Fishwelding, that was incouraging. Just to clarify I am using Testors paints, and I already have an unopened bottle of thinner, but I don't exactaly know how to use it. Do I just poor a little into the paint jar itself?

Another question, what exactaly is the difference between using brushes by hand and air brushing? Does airbrushing give a different effect or look to the model?

You probably know most of this, but the long story is that airbrushing is basically a pen-shaped gun that atomizes paint like a spray can, but with much more subtle control. I don't know if people first started using them to create finishes that feature a soft, blended edge between colors, sometimes seen on military camouflage patterns, or to eliminate brush streaks that naturally develop from brush-painting models, but do not occur on real (1/1th) scale hardware. (Although pro modelers can do AMAZING jobs eliminating or avoiding these, even with a bristle-brush) Real stuff, after all, was painted in similar fashion to airbrushes, since about the early twentieth century has been painted with air-powered spray guns. (Although there are always exceptions). Also, as Kenshin alluded to, different techniques have been developed over the years to take advantage of airbrushes' ability to subtly blend colors on the surface to add 'weathering,' or even just more visual interest to what could be an otherwise drab finish. But, I should add, not everyone chooses to use airbrushes; there's folks here who own em', but still prefer to use bristle-brushes, for various reasons. I airbrush extensively, but hold the masters of the 'old-school' of painting 'by hand' in high regard.

Airbrush set-ups can be expensive, depending on your budget. Reading old threads here in Tips n'Tools, you'll learn the various kinds of airbrushes, their strengths and weaknesses. (I happen to use a Paasche VL almost exclusively, although lots of people use different brushes for different reasons). Additionally, you will need an air or other gas supply, often a compressor. Some people use general purpose hardware compressors, others buy dedicated airbrush compressors. Search around here for discussions on these; it seems there's one every two weeks or less. In general, hang around ARC long enough and you'll find how and where to find airbrush stuff good and cheap, relatively speaking. Additionally, Testors sell an airbrush propellant in a can that can power airbrushes, but most people conclude that this is quickly "penny wise, pound foolish." It's awfully expensive for comparitively little propellant. If you wish to use an airbrush, but can't afford an airbrush rig right now, that's fine; learn to paint with a bristle-brush very well, and it will pay dividends long after you adopt an airbrush. Get the basics down first on a few kits, before leaping into more complex stuff.

I suggest finding Shepard Paine's old book Modeling Tanks and MIlitary Vehicles (ISBN: 0890240450) published by Kalmbach Press (they who publish FineScale Modeler Magazine). Shep Paine is an illustrious figure in our hobby's history, a kind of Babe Ruth and Yoda mixed together. Armor kits might not be your area of interest (which sounds like airplanes) but this book is a basic primer on how to use paints, glues, tools, decals, and other stuff. It's ancient, but clear and concise, and for over three decades has been teaching most of us the basic techniques of how to build models. Even old hands return to it to review certain techniques, after years of building models. It might not help you with resin or photoetch, or the advanced techniques, but there's plenty of time to learn them later and elsewhere.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Fishwelding

[f14peter]

first welcome to ARC Enzonami!. Airbrushing tends to give you more control over you model. Also you can do things such as pre-shading which is almost impossible to do with a brush. Pre-shading is when you apply a dark color before your final coat of paint to simulate weathering,

fading, dirt etc.

Sage words Kenshin.

EnZoNaMi, you have essentially three option for painting the exterior of models . . . brush painting, spray can painting or airbrushing.

Brush painting is usually easier for the neophyte, but a very smooth finish is difficult to achieve. It can be done, but you'll never get the ultra-smooth finish obtainable through spraying. If you're going to brush paint, invest in some high quality brushes, the word I get is that the brush itself makes a world of difference. Brushes made by modeling companies are much less desirable than artist type brushes.

For your first few models, I would suggest spray cans if they're available in the colors you want. Low initial cost, a smoother layer of paint, and you can concentrate on refining your construction skills without having to master an airbrush.

The advantages of using an airbrush a manyfold . . . first, sprayed paint offers the best and smoothest result, and since color selections in spray cans are limited, you can get a wider selection of colors even without mixing by using jar paint in an airbrush. Also, paint applied with an airbrush can go on with a smoother, thinner coat since you can regulate pressure and shoot at more specifically defined points. You can also achieve some effects much easier (Such as Luftwaffe WWII mottling) with an airbrush.

Say you brush-paint a model, and it looks not so great. You use spray cans on your next one and it looks much better. However, use an airbrush on the next and you'll be amazed.

The slight downside of an airbrush is that there's an initial cost factor since you need to buy an airbrush and then factor in air supply (No, I'm not talking about the soft-pop band of the 80s!). You can buy cans of compressed air, but they're usually only good for spraying one model (If you're lucky) and eventually (rather quickly) the cost of aircans will be more than a permanent air supply, such as a compressor or airtank. Modeling and/or art dedicated compressors can be expensive, but look for more generic compressors that perform as well or better. I have a Campbell-Hausfeld compressor available through K-Mart (a department-type store) that has the compressor, a built-in airtank, and regulator . . . all for less than $100USD. There is a slight learning-curve with an airbrush, so I wouldn't worry too much about getting one right off the bat, concentrate on basic construction skills first.

Of course, you'll need to decide on what type of airbrush you want, since they come in two different types . . . a single-action (Which tends to be less expensive and less complicated, and easier to maintain, but not always as capable for very fine work) or a double-action (More expensive, more complicated, more work maintaining, but not too much, but it is capable of finer work), the choice is yours. Some say that eventually you'll want a double-action so might as well start with one. That's fine, but some single-action airbrushes can achieve marvelous results. I have a Paasche H which is inexpensive (around $40USD), comes with three different spray tips, and is as durable as a ball-peen hammer. You could probably use this thing to jack-up your car while changing a flat tire, and it still keeps working and working. Tom Cleaver, who lurks at www.modelingmadness.com says he's been using the same Paasche H for 20 years, and I believe it.

There's also a time consumption factor since paints being airbrushed usually need to be thinned, plus there's cleaning of the airbrush, and you need a place to spray. That all said, if you're serious about modeling, an airbrush is indeed an invaluable tool.

Now that I've given my spiel about airbrushes, don't dismiss spray cans out of hand. With a little practice and the right technique, really good results are possible. The somewhat new AS series of spray cans from Tamiya are great. As mentioned, I have an airbrush, but no permanent place to spray and my modeling time is already taking a beating from the demands of other things. If the color I want is available in a spray can, I'll usually go with that.

Here's a great example of the some-time advantage of using spray cans . . . My current project is ProModeler's F-86D and I've been using a couple of Tamiya silver spray cans. I painted the exterior during our extremely damp spring and having to spray outside, finding an opening was difficult. At one point, I was sitting by the window waiting for the rain to stop, then I'd dash outside andquickly shoot some paint, then run back inside when it started raining again, something I couldn't have done with my airbrush. Incidently, my wife found that highly amusing.

By the way . . . did anybody mention that FNG's buy the drinks around here? I'm currently approaching the bottom of the glass of shiraz I poured a while ago, I'd like a refill thank you very much!

Edited July 10, 2006 by f14peter

[EnZoNaMi]

*Buys everybody here refills on their drinks. ;) *

Ok you all have been a big help. I just started my Blue Angel jet yesterday and it's looking good.

I have a questions though.

How long do you wait until you apply a second coat of paint?

Edited July 13, 2006 by EnZoNaMi

[illithid00]

When I'm painting with enamels (which is rare), I usually wait about one day to let the paint cure before giving it another layer of paint

[EnZoNaMi]

When I'm painting with enamels (which is rare), I usually wait about one day to let the paint cure before giving it another layer of paint

Whoa, good thing I asked before I started back.

I was thinking more like 30 mins to let it dry, then go back to it. :D

Ok, now I understand why these things can take so long. :lol:

[Bucky Katt]

Welcome!

For some great tips, I highly recommend these DVDs:

http://www.masterclassmodels.com/

I can't tell you how much these helped. I've only been building for a couple years, and I've read a lot of great advice (mainly here at ARC), but to see some of these techniques realtime, it made a world of difference. These aren't those basic how-to DVDs. there's over 5 hours of information there. Well worth the price.

You can also pick them up through Squadron.com, but that first link is to Floyd's website.

Have fun!

Brian

Edited July 13, 2006 by Bucky Katt

[Liberator24]

You might even get lucky enough to have the star of the DVD, Floyd Werner, do a cameo here and give you some of his current works, like the new bare metal DVD....(can't wait). But I will 2nd Brian's recommendation, I have found the Masterclass series has the way of the master...REALLY USEFUL STUFF!!!!

:D :lol:

[canadian_camo]

hey enzo you could always go to the library and take out some books on modelling those would help you ALOT they helped me quite a bit to and so did this forum.

Welcome to the ARC man!!! B)