F-104G Luftwaffe jbg 34

[dragan_mig31]

I am thinking of starting an old ESCI 1:2 f-104G + some hasegawa decals.I was thinking of building the JBG 34 Scheme of the German AF.Now I see there awre several different types of Bang seats for the f-104G.Does anyone knows what type this unit operated?And I would appriciate any pics of the Aircraft itself due to my incompetence with this subject which is not my area of expertease.

Thanks a lot and best regards,Dragan

[Jennings]

The Germans used the Martin Baker seat exclusively after around 1970. Before that it was the C-4 Lockheed seat.

J

[martinBK]

German Starfighter were fitted with the GQ-7 from Martin Baker, but with 2 different shapes for the headrest.

[Andre]

The Germans used the Martin Baker seat exclusively after around 1970. Before that it was the C-4 Lockheed seat.

In addition, German F-104G's were fitted with later models J79 which had a longer afterburner section than those they were delivered with -the Hasegawa kits provide both types, while the Esci (I believe) only has the original part. Also, German F-104G's were fited with the fat main tires and bulged main landing gear covers which are, again, in the Hasegawa / RoG kits but not in the Esci.

Oh, and you can toss the Esci drop tanks as well - these are way too skinny and are the worst part of the kit. Again, Hasegawa / RoG has suitable replacement parts.

HTH,

Andre

[dragan_mig31]

thanks guys.

[Andre]

thanks guys.

Glad to be of help. I do have a pair of new tool 1/72nd Hasegawa tip tanks in the spare bin, would these help?

Cheers,

Andre

[dragan_mig31]

Glad to be of help. I do have a pair of new tool 1/72nd Hasegawa tip tanks in the spare bin, would these help?

Cheers,

Andre

I think they would.How much do I owe you?

regards,Dragan

[Andre]

I think they would.How much do I owe you?

Just drop me a PM - they are just gathering dust in the spares bin at the moment, so I'd rather have someone put them to a good use.

All you'll owe me is a topic in both the "In Progress" and "Display Case" sections. ;-)

Cheers,

Andre

[soulfreak]

Cause, you want to use 23+01, it must be a plane from 1968 or later.

then only 2 schemes are possible

Norm 72:

Norm 83:

Norm83 Scheme

I used on my 1/32 F-104G these decals:

[dragan_mig31]

Great info.I would build the one with the norm 83 camo.Thanks for the photo also.This will help me a lot.

Cause, you want to use 23+01, it must be a plane from 1968 or later.

then only 2 schemes are possible

Norm 72:

Norm 83:

Norm83 Scheme

I used on my 1/32 F-104G these decals:

[Andre]

Dragan, you've got a PM.

Some additional pointers I'll put here (since perhaps others may find it helpful) - "JaBoG", as in JaBoG 34 like you plan to build, is short for Jagdbombergeschwader, or "fighter-bomber unit". These aircraft were not equipped for Sidewinders (and, even then, no Luftwaffe Starfighters were wired for the underfuselage catamaran AIM-9 launchers - these were only employed by a small number of German Navy (or "Marineflieger") F-104G's. German air defence F-104G's of JG71 and JG74 (Jagdgeschwader, or "fighter unit") carried them exclusively on their wingtips. I've seen a surprising number of Starfighter models with these fitted when in real life they were not... just a headsup.

Also, by the time the Norm '83 camo was introduced, most (if not all) surviving Luftwaffe F-104G's were fitted with spike-shaped ECM antenna either above the fuselage aft of the cockpit, under the nose, or both - check your references. They shouldn't be much of a challenge to scratchbuild.

As for JaBog 34 "Lizard" Norn '83 pics, I'm partial to this one (which shows both the undernose and upper spine ECM spikes I mentioned above to good effect) and this one for good overall views, with the latter pic showing the seldom seen underside of the beast, while this one is not so much good for detail but more for a general mood. The main site, http://www.916-starfighter.de/main.htm , is well worth checking out.

Cheers,

Andre

Edited September 21, 2010 by Andre

[dragan_mig31]

Thanks Andre.This is a lot of useful info.So if I put some sidewinders on my f-104 I should put them under the wings?

Thanks again for the info.Dragan

[Andre]

So if I put some sidewinders on my f-104 I should put them under the wings?

Nope - if you build a JaBoG-34 machine you shouldn't use Sidewinders at all, they were only carried by the two dedicated air defence units in Luftwaffe service (JG-71 "Richthofen" and JG-74 "Mölders").

The JaBoG's were used for attack and strike duties only - possible stores were rarely carried outside of exercises and comprised mainly of Mk.82 bombs, both slick and retarded, and rocket launchers.

In the Norm '83 timeframe, most were seen with the centreline practice bomb dispenser you can see in the first and second of the pics I linked to in my previous post, while the second pic shows a rocket pod of the type regularly carried as well - these pods can be found in the RoG Fiat G.91 kit, but more readily available LAU-19 pods were employed as well. The "916" site I've linked to as well in my earlier post should yield you a good number of reference shots.

Edit: one more pic you may like.

HTH,

Andre

Edited September 22, 2010 by Andre

[dragan_mig31]

OK thanks Andre.I will make a clean build with no externall stores.

[Andre]

OK thanks Andre.I will make a clean build with no externall stores.

Apart from those tip tanks, right? ;-)

The Esci kit gives a SUU-21 dispenser for the centreline, but AFAIK German Starfighters did not use this - save it for a USAFE Phantom or F-111.

Oh, and another thing - late in life the German Starfighters were retrofitted with a red strobe light beacon on the aft spine which I think is not in the Esci kit - you can see it to advantage in the pic I just linked to, which also gives another good view of the upper ECM spike on the Norm 64 singleseater.

Cheers,

Andre

[Jennings]

The JaBoG's were used for attack and strike duties only - possible stores were rarely carried outside of exercises and comprised mainly of Mk.82 bombs, both slick and retarded, and rocket launchers.

Or nukes. American nukes, but nukes none the less.

J

[dragan_mig31]

Thanks a lot for this points.I see that the kit has those slots you mentioned.I will put this aside in the spares box.I will also try to scratchbuild the centerline rack for bombs but I don't promise anything I have already started the kit.I managed to detail the IP and the tub.All I need now is to modify the seat and paint the details.

regards,Dragan

[Andre]

Thanks a lot for this points.

Glad to be of help!

I see that the kit has those slots you mentioned.I will put this aside in the spares box.I will also try to scratchbuild the centerline rack for bombs but I don't promise anything I have already started the kit.I managed to detail the IP and the tub.All I need now is to modify the seat and paint the details.

You could also wait for that envelope to arrive - I've put in the Hasegawa MB seat and the retrofit-style J79 burner can as well.

Cheers,

Andre

[dragan_mig31]

Glad to be of help!

You could also wait for that envelope to arrive - I've put in the Hasegawa MB seat and the retrofit-style J79 burner can as well.

Cheers,

Andre

Ok I'll wait for the envelope :) Thanks again for this help.I would have built a wrong model fore sure if it wasn't for you to help me here.If you need some help about eastern topics fell free to ask :) That is my area of expertease.But still i can not resist the urge to make some cold war western models :) There is something about the cold war that makes my stomach feel strange

Dragan

[Andre]

Or nukes. American nukes, but nukes none the less.

Yup, as implied by my "strike" comment - our Dutch 311 and 312 Squadrons also had US-controlled, eh, "special items" available at Volkel AB should the feacal matter hit the air displacement device.

However, I didn't specify them as I don't think that these items are readily avalable in kit form, apart from a few resin ones AFAIK. From the top of my head, the fins of the B61's (?) were specially modified for F-104 use because of its exceedingly low ground clearance since these were carried on the centreline.

Cheers,

Andre

[Andre]

Ok I'll wait for the envelope :)

It'd be quite a job to modify the Lockheed seat of the Esci kit into a MB. And since I had a Hasegawa seat to spare (the KLu used the Lockheed seat exclusively) you're welcome to it.

Thanks again for this help.I would have built a wrong model fore sure if it wasn't for you to help me here.

Again, glad to help!

If you need some help about eastern topics fell free to ask :) That is my area of expertease.But still i can not resist the urge to make some cold war western models :) There is something about the cold war that makes my stomach feel strange

I feel the same about Eastern Block Cold War-era jets. SOmehow they were all the more fascinating when all you had was a vague blurry black & white pic of a silhouetted shape, rather than being able to crawl all over one at Fairford. ;-)

Cheers,

Andre