Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) So, I am sure I am opening up a can of worms, but I wish to build an East German Mig-21MF using my Eduard kit and am looking at the color options. I can see a dark green in several pics, but is the lighter color another green, or is it a brown or were there two options, a green and green over blue/gray and a green and brown over a blue/gray? I use Tamiya paints, and can figure out the blue gray, and the dark green, but what about that other color? Is it an Olive Drab, or a Khaki or something else completely? I even seen pics of a bright green with a dark green. There is a pic of a bunch of Mig-21MFs on a tarmac which have the Luft markings on them. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Best Regards Brad Edited January 6, 2015 by Brad-M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scottr5213 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Check this site out http://www.mig-21.de/english/default.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Nice, but I don't see anything regarding colors. Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Here's a few pics that I've seen: http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3036/mig21rothenburggrand1.jpg http://www.worldwide-military.com/Military%20Aircraft/Russian%20Fighters%20plaatjes/Groot/MiG-21MF%20Fishbed-J%20Germany.JPG http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4164/img082.jpg TIA for any help Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I am doing one and painting it Tamiya Flat Tan and Olive Green over a Black base See your 2nd and 3rd Picture and also the 1st picture 3rd plane from the left.... Edited January 6, 2015 by viper730 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 So, I am sure I am opening up a can of worms, but I wish to build an East German Mig-21MF using my Eduard kit and am looking at the color options. I can see a dark green in several pics, but is the lighter color another green, or is it a brown or were there two options, a green and green over blue/gray and a green and brown over a blue/gray? I use Tamiya paints, and can figure out the blue gray, and the dark green, but what about that other color? Is it an Olive Drab, or a Khaki or something else completely? I even seen pics of a bright green with a dark green. There is a pic of a bunch of Mig-21MFs on a tarmac which have the Luft markings on them. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Best Regards Brad Brad, When Trenton received their Mig 21 from E Germany in the 90s, it was in a green/green scheme. It has since been repainted, however, I did a mini-walk-around when it was in the hangar and I could dig out those pics if you are interested. Cheers, Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 I am doing one and painting it Tamiya Flat Tan and Olive Green over a Black base See your 2nd and 3rd Picture and also the 1st picture 3rd plane from the left.... Hi, Are you talking about XF-55 Deck Tan? Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viper730 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hi, Are you talking about XF-55 Deck Tan? Brad I say Tan but it was XF-52 Flat Earth, XF-58 Olive Green.....Then I used MM Russian Underside Blue or Flanker Light blue can't recall at the moment.... but I might re-mask it and do it in XF-23 light blue with a bit of XF-18 and or XF-8 to darken it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Brad, an actual bort number would be extremely helpful. But I'm somehow suspecting, it's "687" you're after, right? Otherwise, determining adequate XF-shades might become quite difficult, mainly because of too many possible variations - unit-applied, depot-applied, storing/weather conditions, etc. A few years ago, I was experimenting with various shades from TAMIYA's XF-range, so here a few of my results: MiG-21bis (SAU/75B), pretty close to XF-13 and XF-49+XF-64 (8:2 mixing ratio). 838 MiG-21MF, pretty close to XF-13 and XF-52. EDIT: correction, XF-13 instead of XF-26 460 MiG-21MF in a rather fresh depot-applied (Dresden) camouflage livery. Pretty close to XF-13 and XF-51. 510 467 MiG-21M in uinit-applied* camouflage, close to XF-13 and a mix of XF-49+XF-55 in 8:2 ratio. 531 *Difference between unit-applied and Dresden depot-applied camouflage schemes: Colour demarcation lines applied at Dresden are pretty much jagged, whereas unit-applied colours seems to have a more organic/wavy colour demarcation. Besides, it was not uncommon to use colours different from those applied during Programmed Depot Maintenance (PDM). . MiG-21M with unit-applied camo and partial touch-ups in a significantly lighter shade. Close to XF-13 and XF-51 and touch-ups in XF-49+XF-55. 583 MiG-21MF "bort 687" while serving with JG3. Close to XF-13 and XF-49+XF-55 in a 7:3 ratio. 687 "687" on display after restoration at the Oberschleissheim-collection of the Deutsches Museum in typical "Dresden-camo" - XF-2-tinted shades of XF-13 and XF-51. 687 Cheers, Erik Edited January 9, 2015 by Airfixer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Super, thanks very much Erik! Any thoughts on the colors of the first couple of Migs in the top photo I posted? Why the bright green? Was that done after the fall of East Germany? I looks like the Luft painted over the East German markings, but the brighter green is interesting. Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) You're welcome, Brad. MiG-21 line-up in open storage at Drewitz: When the photo was taken, the MiGs had spent more than a year in open storage, and what appears to be a brighter shade of green is actually a rather faded khaki. The majority of MiG-21 in storage is still wearing the Dresdeb-applied camo scheme, and the khaki was prone to bleach out rather quickly, turning into something "greenish". On the other hand, the photograph itself has a heavy blue tinge. Different, less blueish version of your first photograph: Drewitz The third picture depicts another particularity of many LSK/LV MiG-21 - bleached a**es. The majority of aircraft spent their service life sitting in open revetments, only partially covered with tarps - forward and mid fuselage/wings. The tail remained "outdoorsy". See the bleached rear fuselage, fin and stabs in contrast to the remaining green/flat earth colours. MiG-21UM playing hide-and-seek Erik Edited January 6, 2015 by Airfixer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Brad, When Trenton received their Mig 21 from E Germany in the 90s, it was in a green/green scheme. It has since been repainted, however, I did a mini-walk-around when it was in the hangar and I could dig out those pics if you are interested. Cheers, Tony Hi Tony, Are the pics you have prior to the repaint, if so, then sure. Just exterior pics are fine, as I have enough detail pics of interior areas and cockpit. Thanks Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Wow, Erik, what a difference that pic is from the one I posted. Makes a bunch of sense now, thanks. Brad You're welcome, Brad. MiG-21 line-up in open storage at Drewitz: When the photo was taken, the MiGs had spent more than a year in open storage, and what appears to be a brighter shade of green is actually a rather faded khaki. The majority of MiG-21 in storage is still wearing the Dresdeb-applied camo scheme, and the khaki was prone to bleach out rather quickly, turning into something "greenish". On the other hand, the photograph itself has a heavy blue tinge. Different, less blueish version of your first photograph: Drewitz The third picture depicts another particularity of many LSK/LV MiG-21 - bleached a**es. The majority of aircraft spent their service life sitting in open revetments, only partially covered with tarps - forward and mid fuselage/wings. The tail remained "outdoorsy". See the bleached rear fuselage, fin and stabs in contrast to the remaining green/flat earth colours. MiG-21UM playing hide-and-seek Erik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Erik, That Mig-21UM with the tarp over the nose might be something required for Trumpy's kit ;P Brad ps: I need that 2 seat kit now :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 A tarp would be a decent fix for quite a few Trumpeter kits... That picture of the MiG-21UM screams for a diorama. So, how about it? Erik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) A tarp would be a decent fix for quite a few Trumpeter kits... That picture of the MiG-21UM screams for a diorama. So, how about it? Erik We'll see. Know anyone who has an AM tarp that fits a Mig-21? J/K of course Brad Edited January 6, 2015 by Brad-M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi Tony, Are the pics you have prior to the repaint, if so, then sure. Just exterior pics are fine, as I have enough detail pics of interior areas and cockpit. Thanks Brad Pics scanned and emailed, Brad HTH Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi Tony, Got them, thanks! Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 BTW Erik, I actually never answered your original question regarding what Bort # I was after. I am not actually looking at building the model using Eduard's decals/scheme of 687, but I am using Afterburner decals, and Bort 493. I will use the pics of 467 amd 460 that you kindly supplied me as examples for when I get to the painting stage. Thanks again! Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 I say Tan but it was XF-52 Flat Earth, XF-58 Olive Green.....Then I used MM Russian Underside Blue or Flanker Light blue can't recall at the moment.... but I might re-mask it and do it in XF-23 light blue with a bit of XF-18 and or XF-8 to darken it. Thanks for the reply Viper. Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 [...] but I am using Afterburner decals, and Bort 493. I will use the pics of 467 amd 460 that you kindly supplied me as examples [...} Hi Brad, Alright then. Since we're dealing with bort 493, I'd suggest to go with bort 460 and a combination of XF-13 and XF-52. 467 is somewhat off. MiG-21M 22+59, ex 493 JG 2 in "Dresden-style" camo pattern: Note: Rear view mirror/periscope mounting plate faired over. Cheers, Erik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Will do. Thanks Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hello again Erik, Any thoughts on the data stencils on the east german Mig-21's? Were they prolific on the airframe, or sparse? Would they be in german language or russian? TIA Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Airfixer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Hi Brad, The actual extent of stenciling varied considerably - from the full monty to really, really sparse. LSK/LV MiG-21 having undergone major/general overhaul and repaint at the Dresden facility used to sport more stencils. And yet, the sheer extent varied a lot. I'd rather recommend to search for pictures of the actual aircraft than solely relying on the kit's marking and painting guide. LSK/LV aircraft sporting a tactical camouflage usually had black and red stencils applied. Red was used to "highlight" areas to pay particular regard/place great importance to. The full stenciling monty: MiG-21MF "510" (freshly depot-applied "Dresden-camo" with its distinctive serrated colour demarcation) MiG-21MF "462" ("Dresden-style" camo, comprehensive stenciling. Note: the stencils are barely visible, mainly due to the low contrast and the practice to use regular typefaces for stenciling templates.) Stenciling on a LSK/LV MiG-23BN (stenciling entirely in German) Sparse stenciling: MiG-21bis "882" (almost devoid of any stenciling, typical unit-applied camouflage) Language: Upon delivery, Cyrillic stencils - if applied. Upon first depot-level repaint (major/general overhaul), stencils mostly applied in German. Some areas frequently retained their Cyrillic stencils - servicing points, landing gear bays, landing gear, di-electric covers, placards, etc. On other airframes, the original stencils had been completely replaced with German stencils, though. A mix of German and Cyrilic stencils wasn't particularly uncommon. The MiG-23BN on display at the Hermeskeil museum (link above) has a full set of German markings except for the ground servicing points, which were applied in Russian: MiG-23BN Hermeskeil HTH Erik Edited January 24, 2015 by Airfixer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks very much Erik. Now, does anyone know if the stencils in the Eduard kit in Russian, or Czech? Brad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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