Rocky Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I've been doing some reading on the F-14 as a bomber, and I am hoping someone here can shed some light on a question. The wings of the F-14 automatically sweep from 20 degrees on takeoff to 68 degrees at speeds above Mach 1.2. At speeds between Mach 0.4 and Mach 0.75 they remain at only 22 degrees. There is a ground attack mode, where the wings lock at 55 degrees, to remove one variable in the bomb release calculation. But if the F-14 is dropping a bomb while flying straight and level at altitude, I wouldn't think that would be an issue, especially dropping a LGB or JDAM. The F-14 was limited to 470 mph when carrying four LGB due to buffeting on the seeker heads of the aft bombs. At that speed, the natural sweep would be 22 degrees. So which would the sweep be when carrying LGB, 22 degrees, or 55 degrees? I have wings to glue on a model... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Something tells me not to get into all the details of this one...but...I question the numbers you provided in terms of what you'd see actually in flight...470 knots with the wings forward at 22? So my question is what is the attitude of the jet that you are modeling? Cruise, pop up bombing(hi or lo), dive bombing, level release? I can give you a better answer with that info. I personally think the bomb select wingsweep position looks great. As for weaponeering, it's pretty complicated stuff and has more to do with the speed and altitude than the wingsweep. True, the JDAM gave pretty wide parameters for employing the weapon, but you'd still be looking for speed/altitude/attitude combinations. Now, where's Aim9xray? I'll bet he's got the best answer -brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aim9xray Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 There is a ground attack mode, where the wings lock at 55 degrees, to remove one variable in the bomb release calculation. Well, there. You already knew the answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Well, there. You already knew the answer. :( If the F-14 was making a diving attack, speed would increase, and the wings would normally be increasing sweep all the way down if they were not locked. But if it was flying straight and level, the speed and wing sweep would not change. I see no reason to lock the wings at a sweep angle that would be less fuel efficient. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) If the F-14 was making a diving attack, speed would increase, and the wings would normally be increasing sweep all the way down if they were not locked. But if it was flying straight and level, the speed and wing sweep would not change. I see no reason to lock the wings at a sweep angle that would be less fuel efficient. Umm,...nevermind... -brian Edited May 12, 2008 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Something tells me not to get into all the details of this one...but...I question the numbers you provided in terms of what you'd see actually in flight...470 knots with the wings forward at 22?The wing sweep figures are from The great book of modern warplanes, edited by Mike Spick, c 2003. The 470 mph speed limit figure is from US Navy F-14 Tomcat units of Operation Iraqi Freedom, by Tony Holmes, c 2005. It was mph and not knots.So my question is what is the attitude of the jet that you are modeling? Cruise, pop up bombing(hi or lo), dive bombing, level release? I can give you a better answer with that info.I want to do an F-14D during Operation Iraqi Freedom, with LGBs or JDAM. I expect the aircraft flew straight and level during their bombing runs with those weapons. Edited May 12, 2008 by Rocky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I don't doubt that the numbers may have been published, but what they do in real life is another matter. As for tactics and employment parameters, that's not something I'm comfortable discussing on a forum, but you could expect that all manners of weapons deliveries could and probably did take place for that timeframe. My suggestion is if you wanted to model a specific look for the jet, ie wings fully aft - low altitude and high speed, or wings at 55 at the roll in point, or wings fully back in a dive, etc... -brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 As for tactics and employment parameters, that's not something I'm comfortable discussing on a forum, but you could expect that all manners of weapons deliveries could and probably did take place for that timeframe. Were you a Navy pilot???? You sound like you know something more.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) I know not which of you speak... I just have friends in the community and I like the jet! -brian Edited May 12, 2008 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Were you a Navy pilot???? You sound like you know something more.... I know not which of you speak... I just have friends in the community and I like the jet!-brian Dude, that is sooooo not what you told that hot tall blonde Swedish swimsuit model chick at the O'Club! :P What was her name? Heidi? Lisa?? Christy??? Tina???? What did you tell her your name was? Rick? Magnum?? Jeremy??? Tony???? Oh what's in a name? It's a joke folks. Unless 2 or more other people say they saw it happen, no one can say otherwise. John B :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harv Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) Hey, what ever happened to, "What happens at the O Club, stays at the O Club"?! Edited May 13, 2008 by Harv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hey, what ever happened to, "What happens at the O Club, stays at the O Club"?! That only applies on Wednesdays during happy hour from 1700-2000. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 That only applies on Wednesdays during happy hour from 1700-2000. Umm, No - Its ALWAYS been "What happens at the O-Club stays at the O-Club". There's a reason there are no cameras allowed in there. Plus, the back bar at Oceana hasn't been used for that kind of entertainment for quite some time. More's the pity. Also, I don't want to get into any "Maverick" Garcia stories. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Umm, No - Its ALWAYS been "What happens at the O-Club stays at the O-Club". There's a reason there are no cameras allowed in there. Plus, the back bar at Oceana hasn't been used for that kind of entertainment for quite some time. More's the pity. Also, I don't want to get into any "Maverick" Garcia stories. Dude...I was kidding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hey, what ever happened to, "What happens at the O Club, stays at the O Club"?! I was just gonna say that Besides her name was Daniela and she was Danish. Come on John, gotta get the story right! And IIRC, I think I told her I was a hand model :lol: . Now if we want to get into Mav stories... (speaking of which, Fuji - should I tell him you said hi?) But back to the original topic - Rocky - it's your model set it up as you want. If you're loading up an OIF F-14D early strike, 2-3 GBU-31 JDAM would be a cool load. I'd put it in a dive with the wings either all back or in the bomb sweep and show the aft bomb separating. One of these days I'm going to do a VX-9 B with 4 GBU-31, Lantirn, Phoenix and a pair of Sidewinders with the wings swept back, doing the speed of heat! If only I could show the ground rushing by at 500ft and 550knots! FWIW, early on in the bomb era, F-14B's were regularly doing low level ingress at 500ft/550+knots. B's had an advantage over the D because of the increased drag of the bigger chinpod. There was a great story about early VF-24 F-14B Fallon bomb det as told by Chunx Anderson on the net a bunch of years back...there were some 650knot ingresses where at the top of the pop, the jet was still carrying 500+knots and egressing at the speed of heat (650+)! Try that in a Hornet -brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tank Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) This thread needs some.... Edited May 13, 2008 by Tank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I was just gonna say that :) Besides her name was Daniela and she was Danish. Come on John, gotta get the story right! And IIRC, I think I told her I was a hand model :) . -brian Never ever let the facts get in the way of a good story, especially when the story leads to someone becoming a legend. You, Brian, can be made into a legend! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 I'm not sure I like the sound of that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hornet78 Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Now if we want to get into Mav stories... (speaking of which, Fuji - should I tell him you said hi?) Brian Is he still flying? I met him at an airshow out here YEARS ago "Early ninties" . He was trying to recruit me into the navy when i finally had to tell him I had a pretty good gig being a firemen. He mentioned he had family here in Mesa IIRC, remeber that was close to 20 years ago now. Jim PS your Gypsie sheeet is Sierra hotel :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UK_tomcat_fan Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 ok little help here Mk83 Drop: LGB Drop Level LGB Drop GBU24 drop: as you can see most are wings swept.. Hope this helps as for everyone else sorry for Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 (edited) ok little help hereas you can see most are wings swept.. Hope this helps as for everyone else sorry for DARN! Just when I thought I'd derailed another Tomcat thread into the chasm of sillyness. Here are some images that clearly show drops made with the wings in the BOMB (55 degrees) position. (Taken from www.tomcatalley.com) JDAM Cluster munitions Brian - What are you afraid of? You could be at least as famous as Paris Hilton! Edited May 14, 2008 by John Bibay Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Oh snap! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 IIRC the wings automatically went to 55 degrees when air to ground was selected. All the photos above show the wings in 55 degrees. HTH Reddog :o Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 IIRC the wings automatically went to 55 degrees when air to ground was selected. All the photos above show the wings in 55 degrees. HTH Reddog Hmmm... I seem to remember watching F-14s strafe targets with the wings at the 55 degree position. Could this be right? (I don't have access to my pictures right now.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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