Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

[johnbuck]

Hi there Spaceman,

Being relatively new to the Forum have just come across this and what and extraordinary build......fantastic..... Never seen a combination of paper modelling and scratch building like this.........superb. Am lost for superlatives.

Look forward to following this very much indeed.

All the best

John

[spaceman]

Hi John,

thanks for your nice and appreciative comments. For me it has become already a beautiful routine to combine different materials. And the range of materials now goes from paper on balsa wood to plastics and various metal materials such as steel, aluminium, copper, brass and even lead.

The only difficulty with this mixed construction is painting, because all scratch-built separate parts and components mainly must be painted before assembly. This is much easier without paper ...

[spaceman]

Hello together,

so, today's continues now with the SSWS, and what does it take to install such pipes on the deck of the MLP?

Exactly, lots of Pipe supports, we so also no longer had!

To do this, I have browsed my photo collection first once again to find out where all the Pipe supports everywhere sit. I've started with the supports of the 24" main line (Ø 4.0 mm) around the SRB holes from which then the six 18" inlet pipes (Ø 3.0 mm) are branching off to the outlets in the SRB exhaust holes, respectively the two rear pipes (between the Hold down posts) are reduced again on 12" (Ø 2.0 mm).

Source: NASA

If you look closely, you can see two versions of the Pipe supports. The majority of the supports is placed directly on joints of the main line segments can be seen on the narrow locking straps, which are clearly visible in the next image on the right.

Source: NASA

But there are also some supports without these locking straps, as in the foreground, which have all the same construction. These supports are unfortunately only hinted in the Paper kit. :o

In the following already shown overview drawing I've assigned the places of all Pipe support, and thereby not amazed, namely each 18 supports on each SRB hole.

Source: NASA

The supports with the locking straps are located on the 14 green marked points, the remaining 4 supports on the red marked points having no such straps. When evaluating the photographic material I have discovered some supports (1, 3, 8, 12, 14) and supplemented, which are missing from the drawing.

Again, this means all in all a lot of detailed work. But don't worry, these supports also will be done sometime, however I have to consider quite a while as I could scratch-build the best.

Came out is the following variant, where I assumed first of those profiles here. The two lower profiles are a 3.0 mm U-beam or 3.0 mm Evergreen channel, which can be used for the lower part of the supports. For the upper part, where the pipeline runs, I used a 3 mm square tube, which I have 2x slotted on one side to come to a U-shaped profile with the necessary structural height.

And so looks like the finished SSWS Pipe support.

Thus, the SSWS line then runs approx. 3 mm above the MLP deck, which has resulted in my assessment on the basis of detailed photos.

And now I need to make only the remaining 35 supports ... :wacko:

Edited March 25, 2013 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Manfred,

Great job on the support! It's very accurate looking!

Mike.

[spaceman]

Hi Mike,

thanks for the nice words. It's only a small part, but you need some time for scratch-building all 36 supports, you know.

.

[johnbuck]

Hi Manfred

Good to see you work going so well...yep scratch building is very time consuming indeed, but ain't if fun and so satisfying.

If you are into paper modelling am wondering, do you know Mischa Klement's work ? His design and artwork is extraordinary.

http://www.microartwork.com/

I bought the crawler a couple of years ago. It must be the most complex paper model ever published. Not sure when it will get built but at the moment; it is just great to have it on my shelf as it were. Perhaps could use it as a pattern for working in styrene. Seems a shame to chop all that remarkable artwork up. I bought David Maier's Shuttle launch tower last year with view to doing just this.

Thanks for sharing your build, am really enjoying watching the progress.

Best wishes

John

Edited March 28, 2013 by johnbuck

[spaceman]

Hi John,

I know the work by Mischa Klement, his 1:96 Crawler is a brilliant work of art, simply modeling madness. But it's a pity only that his scale does not fit to my Launch pad.

Now I'm already curious on your Launch tower of David Maier's Kit and can not expect your build to be seen.

[spaceman]

Before I start with the pipe support mass production, I started now with the preparations of the Water Bags. This so-called SRB ignition overpressure suppression system is a subsystem of the SSWS. These are plastic bags, which are hooked before the start into the two SRB Exhaust holes and then filled with water, which should in addition to swallow the pressure wave of booster ignition and prevent the reflection of sound waves.

Source: NASA

There are 10 yellow water bags in the Primary SRB Hole between the four Hold down Posts just below the SRBs,

Source: http://www.youtube.com

and 20 red bags in the Secondary SRB Hole behind it, that here just be filled in the image.

Source: NASA

So, first again I had to determine the dimensions, then choose the appropriate materials, and construct a suitable form.

The shape of the arches, I have identified from this NASA photo and measured on the monitor.

I have found information on the dimensions of the water bags on the SSWS page at capcomespace.net. Therefore, the water bags have a cross-section of 30x30 cm, which corresponds to approx. 1,9x1,9 mm in my scale (1:160). I.e. I'll make the partitions with the bow shape from 0.2 mm sheet and paste a rectangular profile 2,0x1,5 mm at the bottom, which should come out then in about and looks in my sketch for the template.

Let's start with the cut of 21 partitions and the 20 profiles for the first SRB Hole,

as well as a first fitting.

And these are now all puzzle pieces,

must be glued only.

Here I must take into account now but still the recesses for the inlet pipe in the corner and the two branches into the hole before the Hold down Posts.

So far for the beginning ...

Edited March 29, 2013 by spaceman

[Mknorr]

Nice work Manfred. I didn't even know they were plastic water bags. I am learning so much here.

[crowe-t]

Manfred,

I really like your approach to making the water bags. The ARC and spacing looks correct.

Mike.

[spaceman]

Nice work Manfred. I didn't even know they were plastic water bags. I am learning so much here.

Hi Manfred,

that is a good thing, I also find it very interesting, if I can learn new facts about this ingenious technique from other guys.

Here are two other photos from the installation of water bags.

Source: NASA

Source: NASA

[spaceman]

Manfred,

I really like your approach to making the water bags. The ARC and spacing looks correct.

Mike.

Thanks Mike for the nice comment. :) Now I need to find just the right colors for the water bags.

[crackerjazz]

Looking really good, Manfred! :) The amount of work you're putting into this is amazing.

[spaceman]

Hi Crackerjazz, thanks for the kind words, no sweet without sweat.

[johnbuck]

fantastic work Manfred...keep it coming. Had no idea there were water bags. Clearly have missed something in my reading.

The launch tower won't be for a long time. Must try and get LM and Columbiad finished first...for once...before I start another project.

Best wishes

John

Edited April 1, 2013 by johnbuck

[spaceman]

Hello John,

thanks for the nice words. As I see you've got to do a lot with your projects, get only time.

[spaceman]

Hello guys,

I hope that you have found all of your Easter eggs and had no rotten egg in the nest like me. That was a nasty surprise. The bad thing is that I've created me even in the nest.

When measuring in the SRB holes for the arrangement of the water bags in front of the Hold down posts I have checked the location of one SRB and got a mild shock. :wacko: The size and location of the SRB stencil indicated me that there would be a very serious problem with the 1:144 shuttle stack which I totally must have lost sight during the former MLP construction according to my analysis of the scale dilemma of the Revell launch Tower Kit with his Mini-MLP (1:200).

As you can see, the attachment points of the SRB on the front two Hold down posts sit about on its front edge and therefore too far forward. That would in itself not broken, if you would lay both Hold down posts accordingly further forward, though for the pipe down almost no place would more.

But this is unfortunately not a solution if one imagines now the location of the shuttle stack with the mighty ET between the SRBs. At that thought, I got a queasy feeling in the stomach and had to bite in hindsight in the butt me. :doh:

How could I that overlook at that time only, would fit the spatial geometry of the stacks in 1:144 inevitably not to the MLP-scale of 1:160. But since then I have focused in my heat only on the construction of the MLP, what should take revenge now.

Nevertheless, everything would have been if, but helping now no longer, and therefore I must see me how I can solve the problem, since only helps teeth high and head bite, since I must go through ...

Therefore all further work on the Water bags and SSWS pipes was being discontinued for the time and the crisis staff convened to find a way out. There is a solution for everything!

Therefore I put temporarily along the Airfix stack, to see how that now specifically looks on the spot.

As can be easily seen on the images, the SRB are inevitably too close together (1:160) holes for the stack (1:144). As a result I will not come around willy-nilly to major interventions in the SRB holes, because I must transfer in about the geometry of the stack at least in lateral direction.

Also another thing struck me on the occasion. At the sight of the imposing size of the stack the 1:160 TSMs seem purely optically too small in the relation, what has surprised me.

Therefore, I've put a TSM from the Revell Kit compared in addition.

I don't know how it is you, but I find that the larger TSM is visually better fits to the stack. and also because of the mounting height of the orbiter on the stack I should be more consistent manner then the TSMs again build in 1:144, then at least the stack with the orbiter from the height produced the TSMs suits, also in terms of the umbilicals, if I want to mount that sometimes.

What do you think about?

Edited April 14, 2013 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Hi Manfred,

I'm sorry to hear of your problem but as you said, there is a solution for everything.

The TSM's are the easy fix, just build them in 1:144. Once installed the scale difference between the 1:160 MLP and the 1:144 TSM's won't be noticeable. When I was mounting the (1:144) TSM's on my undersized Revell MLP they even came up approximately 1.5 mm too short. The stack actually sits slightly higher on the Revell MLP then it should so I had to add some sheet styrene to the bottom of the TSM's to build them up. I even had to 'cheat' the position of the (1:144)TSM's(relative to the 1:160 SSME blast chamber) so they would sit in the proper locations relative to the shuttle and stack. This is something else you should consider before gluing on the (1:144) TSM's.

The SRB chambers can be fixed in a few ways. You can move them out or even make them in 1:144 size. I can't remember what type of wood you used but I'm sure with your skills you'll be able to perfectly change the SRB holes. Again, I'm sure if you go with 1:144 SRB chambers they'll look correct.

Please keep us updated on your results.

BTW, it looks great seeing a stack on your MLP!

Mike.

Edited April 3, 2013 by crowe-t

[johnbuck]

Hi Manfred,

I know EXACTLY how you feel when problems like this arise through ones oversight - it is very frustrating. It's like losing at chess ...there is no one else to blame.

Just a thought : Hasegawa make a 1 : 200 scale shuttle stack. Have it here and would be more than happy to dry assembly ET & SRM's and take off some centre line dimensions for you if it would help.

You could try an AXM shuttle stack and scale print to determine the stack dimensions that would look best to get you back on track. http://axmpaperspacescalemodels.com/#

It's a great job you doing.

Best wishes

John

Edited April 4, 2013 by johnbuck

[spaceman]

Hey Mike,

thank you for your compassion and your great advice. I ponder just about several compromises and I'll keep you updated on the results, there will be a solution ...

Hi John,

thanks for your nice words, your compassion comforts me and don't let me down. The proposal with the Hasegawa stack 1:200 is not bad, but would be a bit too small. :(

I won't give up and will bite me through, I'll be back soon.

[niart17]

youch! Man that's a feeling I hate getting when things are going so well. I'm sure whatever you come up with to solve this, it will be great!

Bill

Edited April 4, 2013 by niart17

[spaceman]

Thanks Bill for your kind words.

BTW here is still an enjoyable message: Do you know what was exactly 30 years ago today?

The maiden flight of the Challenger (STS-6, 04.04.1983)

Edited April 4, 2013 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Hey Mike,

thank you for your compassion and your great advice. I ponder just about several compromises and I'll keep you updated on the results, there will be a solution ...

Manfred,

I have no doubt whatever solution you choose will turn out perfect! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

It's hard to believe it was 30 years ago today that Challenger first took flight. It almost feels like yesterday.

Mike.

[maly149]

Manfred, forgive me if this has been mentioned, but isn't the MLP 1/144th?

if not, how did you get it in 1/160th?

[spaceman]

Manfred,

I have no doubt whatever solution you choose will turn out perfect! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

It's hard to believe it was 30 years ago today that Challenger first took flight. It almost feels like yesterday.

Mike.

Yes Mike, it is unbelievable but true, I'm feeling the same ...