Swapping airbrush tips possible?

[vivkulan]

Basic question.

I got the iwata revolution CR and I have been using it with what ever tip it came with. But I am not able to spray really thin camo lines even when I control the air pressure way down ,change the distance to the spray surface and dilute the paint consistency.

So my question is,

1.Will I be able to buy a finer Iwata tip and replace the existing one and start using it ?

2.Or should I change both the tip and needle?

3.Or none of the above is possible and I have to get totally another airbrush?

Thanks

Vivek

Edited April 30, 2014 by vivkulan

[Bob Beary]

See here...

http://www.iwata-medea.com/resources/how-to-modifying-equipment/

Bob

[viper730]

Yes you should be able to swap in the parts from the Revolution BR which are .3 set up. you will need at minimum the tip and the needle

see this

http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdepot/iwarevolutionparts.aspx

[vivkulan]

Oh wow. So it is possible..

Thanks guys for the information.

But one thing i did not understand on the iwata link is the last step where he is using a small screw driver . Is he taking a sheared of thread from the nozzle?

[RichardL]

Don't forget the 0.3mm PTFE needle packing. Otherwise, paint will blow back into the airbrush trigger assembly/handle and makes a mess if a smaller needle is used with the existing 0.5mm needle packing. I would get the Revolution BR for fine detail work and save the CR for primer/base coats/clear coats/metallics.

[Bob Beary]

But one thing i did not understand on the iwata link is the last step where he is using a small screw driver . Is he taking a sheared of thread from the nozzle?

Read the last half of the paragraph above the picture. He is tightening/loosening (as required) the needle packing screw. It is deep inside the barrel of then AB. There should be a slight drag as the needle passes through it to prevent paint from leaking back into the air valve area.

Bob

[Netz]

Don't forget the 0.3mm PTFE needle packing.

Note he wrote.

" I used the following parts to do this conversion, but I chose to use the needle for the HP-C+/CH because I discovered it sprays more like the HP series and I did not need to purchase the 0.30mm needle packing."

[Kei Lau]

See here...

http://www.iwata-medea.com/resources/how-to-modifying-equipment/

Bob

The credit of this mod and article goes to Cyrus Tan who posts at this forum often.

[Kei Lau]

Note he wrote.

"I used the following parts to do this conversion, but I chose to use the needle for the HP-C+/CH because I discovered it sprays more like the HP series and I did not need to purchase the 0.30mm needle packing."

You do not need to change the needle packing because the needle diameter are the same. The 0.3 mm and 0.5 mm refer to the nozzle openning diameters. The nozzle must be changed with the needle because the taper on the needle are different and must be matched to the nozzle internal shape.

[RichardL]

You do not need to change the needle packing because the needle diameter are the same.

Sorry, the needle diameters are not the same. I just measured mine with an accurate digital caliper. The needle from my Revolution BR is 1.20mm while the needle from my Revolution CR is 1.40mm. The difference is also noticeable to the naked eyes. Refer to the pic below:

[RichardL]

If the needles are the same diameter, then Iwata wouldn't need to make two different packings.

[Kei Lau]

Sorry, the needle diameters are not the same. I just measured mine with an accurate digital caliper. The needle from my Revolution BR is 1.20mm while the needle from my Revolution CR is 1.40mm. The difference is also noticeable to the naked eyes. Refer to the pic below:

Wow, I don't know what to say and am ulterly surprised. I have never seen a manufacturer to use different diameter needles on the same series of airbrush. But I do not have the Iwata Revolution series airbrush. I will have to hope that Cyrus Tan or Don Wheeler see this post and help clear the air. If the original needle of an airbrush is 1.40 mm in diameter, I will never replace it with something different in diameter even if it comes from the same manufacturer.

I use the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS airbrush and have both the needles for 0.35 mm (default) and the 0.5 mm nozzle. Both needles are 1.39 mm in diameter.

The Harder & Steenbeck needle is 1.20 mm in diameter.

The Badger needle is 1.28 mm in diameter. Both the Renegade Krome and Patriot.

All the needles from made-in-China knock-offs are 1.20 mm in diameter. This includes the Neo for Iwata.

Yes, I made these measurement off airbrushes I have. So, they are a sample of one each. I do have 4 knock-offs.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Kei Lau

[Don Wheeler]

I don't have a caliper that reads in mm, but my Mitutoyo dial caliper reads the following:

All my Badger and Thayer & Chandler airbrushes except the 175 Crescendo measure right at 0.050". The 175 measures right at 0.070".

The Paasche Talon needles measure 0.050" like the Badgers. The Paasche VL has a beefier 0.080 needle shaft.

The Chinese made Master and Harbor Freight airbrushes measure 0.046", as do the Chinese made Neos.

The Iwata Eclipse CS and Revolution HP-CR measure 0.054", as does my Grex Genesis XBi.

The Harder & Steenbecks measure 0.047"

I believe I mention these numbers in my reviews, but I will double check.

In any case, it's a good idea to check the manufacturers parts diagram before buying replacement or substitute parts.

Don

[vivkulan]

So in a nut shell, Is its advicable to go with a fine tip and needle combo in the CR body? Will the fit be snug with out any leak paths? I don't want ruin my bore .

[Bob Beary]

I'd call iwata support just to be sure about the need (or lack thereof) for the needle packing part.

Their support is very good and knowledgeable.

http://www.iwata-medea.com/support/

Bob

[Kei Lau]

I don't have a caliper that reads in mm, but my Mitutoyo dial caliper reads the following:

All my Badger and Thayer & Chandler airbrushes except the 175 Crescendo measure right at 0.050". The 175 measures right at 0.070".

The Paasche Talon needles measure 0.050" like the Badgers. The Paasche VL has a beefier 0.080 needle shaft.

The Chinese made Master and Harbor Freight airbrushes measure 0.046", as do the Chinese made Neos.

The Iwata Eclipse CS and Revolution HP-CR measure 0.054", as does my Grex Genesis XBi.

The Harder & Steenbecks measure 0.047"

I believe I mention these numbers in my reviews, but I will double check.

In any case, it's a good idea to check the manufacturers parts diagram before buying replacement or substitute parts.

Don

The key point is that a manufacturer tend to stay with a uniform needle diameter for their airbrushes except when they make major design changess like Badger or Paasche did.

Don Wheeler seems to confirm that the Iwata Eclipse and Revolution all use a single diameter needles at 0.054" (1.37 mm).

The question remains where (seller or maker) did RichardL get his "Iwata" needles which do not seem to be genuine Iwata parts based on their dimension that was measured.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Kei Lau

[Kei Lau]

So in a nut shell, Is its advicable to go with a fine tip and needle combo in the CR body? Will the fit be snug with out any leak paths? I don't want ruin my bore .

The answer is a definite "yes". Otherwise, Iwata will not have published the article written by Cyrus Tan. Cyrus is one of the most respected modeler on ARC.

It goes without saying that you MUST use genuine Iwata parts only. My experience with Iwata spare is that they are all pricision made and very uniform in dimension. There should be no concern of leak or damage if genuine parts only are used.

I have not heard counterfeit part to be a problem with Iwata airbrush in the US. You should feel easy if buying Iwata packaged spare from authorized dealers. In my town, Hobby Lobby is a good source of supply for Iwata Eclipse parts for their low price. Unfortunately, they do not sell the Revolution series of airbrush.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Kei Lau

[RichardL]

The question remains where (seller or maker) did RichardL get his "Iwata" needles which do not seem to be genuine Iwata parts based on their dimension that was measured.

I bought all my Iwata airbrushes from Chicago Airbrush Supply: Iwata Airbrushes

Yes, they do sell genuine Iwata parts. The needles were not purchased separately - they came with the airbrushes. Measurements were made with my highly accurate Japanese Mitutoyo digital caliper:

I also have an Iwata Eclipse with a 0.35 needle, and its diameter is 1.39mm.

[RichardL]

By the way, I highly doubt that Chicago Airbrush Supply would sell fake Iwata airbrushes and parts. The needles I have are very hard and smooth. They don't bend and flex.

[Kei Lau]

By the way, I highly doubt that Chicago Airbrush Supply would sell fake Iwata airbrushes and parts. The needles I have are very hard and smooth. They don't bend and flex.

I will have to hope that Cyrus Tan see this post and help clear the air. If the original needle of an airbrush is 1.40 mm in diameter, I will never replace it with something different in diameter even if it comes from the same manufacturer.

Iwata may possibly used different diameter needle for different airbrushes. Don Wheeler and I both measured the Eclipse and the Revolution airbrush needles only.

[RichardL]

Well, let's see some pictures showing actual measurements:

Pic 1: 0.3 mm needle from genuine Iwata Revolution AR:

Pic 2: 0.3 mm needle from genuine Iwata Revolution BR:

Pic 3: 0.35 mm needle from genuine Iwata Eclipse HP-BS:

Pic 4: 0.5 mm needle from genuine Iwata Revolution CR:

I previously rounded up to 1.40 mm, but it turns out to be only 1.38 mm in diameter.

[RichardL]

Just for kicks and giggles, I pulled out my backup digital caliper from Micro-Mark.

Iwata Revolution AR:

Iwata Revolution BR:

Iwata Revolution CR:

Iwata Eclipse HP-BS:

The bottom line: Needles for Iwata Revolution series don't have the same diameter.

[Don Wheeler]

I've seen this discussion before. It is confusing. But, for reasons known only to Iwata, Revolution needles are not all the same diameter. RichardL has made that pretty clear.

Don

[Kei Lau]

Cyrus Tan made it very clear in his article on the parts to be used for the 0.3 mm conversion for the Iwata Revolution airbrush. http://www.iwata-medea.com/resources/how-to-modifying-equipment/

Fluid nozzle I-704-2

Nozzle cap I-702-2

Fluid needle I-075-3

Note that the nozzle and nozzle cap are Iwata Revolution series parts. But they must be used with a HP-C+/CH series needle.

I chose to use the needle for the HP-C+/CH because I discovered it sprays more like the HP series and I did not need to purchase the 0.30mm needle packing.

The measurements made by RichardL confirms the accuracy of Cyrus' instruction and illustrates the importance of following it to the letters.

[Cyrus Tan]

Wow! I didn't realize my conversion would be a topic of debate? My conversion requires an HP-C+/CH needle (part# I-075-3). You don't need to replace the needle packing if you go this route because the needle diameter is the same as the Eclipse series and the Revolution CR model. The AR/BR models have a smaller needle diameter as RichardL pointed out. If you do decide to use the AR/BR needle (part# I-717-3) you will also need to buy the needle packing (part# I-125-7).

On a side note - I spoke to Dave, the owner of Coast Airbrush, and he said that you don't even need to buy the needle packing for the AR/BR models. You can just tighten the stock needle packing for the CR and it will work just fine. However, if you decide to switch it back to it's stock configuration (0.50mm) the needle packing will not expand back to it's original shape so you will need to buy a new one. In short, you can size it down but not up. Make sense?

Hope this clarifies things?