Observation Helicopters in Vietnam

[HUEYHOG]

I'm wanting to use the OH-6, OH-13 and OH-58 alongside the UH-1H, UH-1C and CH-47 but I'm thinking they'd look out of place. I know the 1st Calvary used the OH-6 but did any other AHCs use it? Before the AH-1 came into service did the OH-6 work with the UH-1B/C? What were the rolls of the OH-58 and OH-13? and were they used during combat operations? I would like to use all six helicopters in a combat setting but if the only place you'd see all six together is at a air base I'll work that. 

 

Tim

[Cubs2jets]

I'm NOT an expert in this area, but I think the only place you'll see all six together is at the Museum in Ft. Rucker...

 

C2j

[HeavyArty]

According to their website, only the Casper Platoon of the 173 Airborne BDE used all the aircraft you listed (minus the Chinooks) at the same time. 

 

"Casper Platoon was the only separate aviation platoon in the United States Army during the Vietnam War.  Casper was organized with the 173d Airborne Brigade on Okinawa in 1963 and arrived in country with the Brigade on May 5, 1965 becoming the first U.S. Army ground unit committed to the Vietnam War. Casper left Vietnam with the Brigade in August 1971.  Assigned Casper aircraft included the: OH-13S, UH-1D, OH-6A & OH-58A Helicopters.  For much more information and over 1,200 photos about Casper Platoon, please visit our award winning website at: :  http://www.casperplatoon.com/ "

 

Here is a dio someone did of all their aircraft.

 

Usually though, these aircraft would only be in close proximity to each other in a basecamp/airbase type setting.  Even then, each type was usually housed in a separate area by company.  As below, the AH-1s are all lined up together.

 

 

You have a at least on  OH-58 mixed in with Hueys here.

 

 

When operating in the field, they would be in the same area, but based on their missions, would not necessarily be close to each other.  UH-1B/C and later AH-1s would be on the outside flanks of the troop carrying UH-1D/Hs and provide security for them.  Most OH6s and later OH-58s were used in courier duties, with the exception of those in Air Cavalry units which were paired with AH-1s in a hunter/killer team, working together to ID and destroy the enemy.  OH-13s were mainly used in courier and VIP transport duties.  A few were outfitted as very early gunships before dedicated gunships such as UH-1Bs were available.

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by HeavyArty
correction

[DonSS3]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing, Heavy Arty.

[Cubs2jets]

I get educated in some way every day...

 

C2j

[thatguy96]

Some things worth point out. First, Vietnam-era Assault Helicopter Companies and Aerial Weapons Companies did not have any observation helicopters assigned to them. The only company-sized units that had slicks, gunships and observation helicopters (or even two of these types) all in the same place were air cavalry troops, provisional/MTOE units done up to a similar organization and separate divisional and group aviation companies.

 

Second, the paper TOEs did not call for specific helicopters. The equipment lines called for things like "helicopter, observation" or "helicopter, utility." So, the TOEs did not change when the Army introduced new helicopters. The Army does not appear to have replaced helos individually, so units would only have converted when there were enough to fully replace the type in question at least a platoon level. This means that units could easily have ended up with mixes of choppers as they received new equipment or replacements, as available. For instance, there is photographic evidence of at least one aerial artillery batteries still flying UH-1Ms in Vietnam in the early 1970s. OH-13s, OH-6s and OH-58s all fulfilled the same functions, as far as the Army was concerned. Any TOE that called for "helicopter, observation" could get any one of the three and be expected to perform the same roles. Same goes for the UH-1B/C/Ms and the AH-1G and the UH-1Ds and Hs. Combat units would have gotten priority for new choppers, while administrative and support elements at division and group level - as well as provisional units, such as Casper Platoon, depending on the circumstances - would have held on to older models longer.

[HUEYHOG]

Thank you for all that info. I was hoping to steer away 1st Cav and Casper platoon looks like a good option. Would OHs give support to ASHC companies? I still would would like to use the 174th and 178th for Hueys and Chinooks. I like the shark teeth on the 174th hueys :)

 

Tim

[thatguy96]

Not sure about observation helos working with AHCs/ASHCs, but I learned a long time ago to never say never. And if you're looking to stay away from the 1st Cav, just remember that every Vietnam-era division regardless of type had an air cavalry troop. The 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment had a unique MTOE air cavalry troop, too.

[Chief Snake]

14 hours ago, thatguy96 said:

Not sure about observation helos working with AHCs/ASHCs, but I learned a long time ago to never say never. And if you're looking to stay away from the 1st Cav, just remember that every Vietnam-era division regardless of type had an air cavalry troop. The 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment had a unique MTOE air cavalry troop, too.

Both the 147th ASHC and the 271st ASHC had OH-58's used to scout potential LZ's and PZ's.

 

Chris M

[FM-Whip]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:12 AM, HeavyArty said:

According to their website, only the Casper Platoon of the 173 Airborne BDE used all the aircraft you listed (minus the Chinooks) at the same time. 

 

"Casper Platoon was the only separate aviation platoon in the United States Army during the Vietnam War.  Casper was organized with the 173d Airborne Brigade on Okinawa in 1963 and arrived in country with the Brigade on May 5, 1965 becoming the first U.S. Army ground unit committed to the Vietnam War. Casper left Vietnam with the Brigade in August 1971.  Assigned Casper aircraft included the: OH-13S, UH-1D, OH-6A & OH-58A Helicopters.  For much more information and over 1,200 photos about Casper Platoon, please visit our award winning website at: :  http://www.casperplatoon.com/ "

 

 

 

 

 

 

My skepticism meter went off when I read the above quote.  
What they mean is that over the years they flew all of those aircraft in the unit, but not all at one time.

 

If you look at the VHPA data for 78 aircraft on their webpage, you will see that
their assigned OH-13Ss all departed the unit the month prior to any OH-6A being assigned - they

got 6 (and possibly 7) OH-6As in the next 4 months.  .
Also, there's a gap of 25 months between the last OH-13S assignment and the first OH-58A
assignment.  Between the last OH-6s and the first OH-58s there was only a two-month overlap.
There's also hardly any overlap between UH-1Bs and Ds and the UH-1Hs.  The Bs only overlapped the
Hs for one example which may be a spurious entry, and the Ds only overlapped by 3 months.

 

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)