VH-53D Help (Solved) - Now with added VH-3A and D content!

[andyf117]

"Schematic sketch of the new presidential helicopter" dated August 1961, from the JFK Library:

Note how the drawing's based on a sliding side door SH-3...

[andyf117]

1 hour ago, Bill K said:

The windows changed several times. The attached picture shows a VH-3 before my time with a small window aft port side. I understand that the window was in the toilet area. Notice that the fuel tank fillers are not covered yet. That is the same the photo above with the CH-53. Late 60s. It also now has the picture window which is where President sat. The attached image is the layout of the VH-3A both models. The VH-3D was very similar. Luggage was usually carried on the #2 A/C with the aids, secret service, etc

The toilet window on the original aircraft was much smaller, and placed higher, as in these 1963 shots - its positioning would seem to correspond with the toilet's location in the preceding sketch:

Edited October 7, 2023 by andyf117

[Bill K]

That's one fancy sketch. Before my time. The toilet on our VH-3s was not so fancy. A toilet seat over a bucket with a plastic bag. All the way aft. Don't ever remember anyone ever using it. Checking it was part of the post flight. Most flights were short.  There does seem to be a vent on the white above that area. The picture of the VH-3 at the Washington monument has only the smaller aft window. That picture was in the line shack on the white side. The old timers use to say that was where the toilet was. I wonder how many times it was moved. From that picture my money is on that the toilet location is the only thing that stayed with the finished product.  I like the fixed seat blocking the cockpit.

[Loach Driver]

Here is the photo of MX14 from the cover of Leatherneck Magazine, July 1970 issue, cropped and enlarged.

 

 

 

 

And going back to the VH-3A with the three windows along the fuselage, I found this photo in a PDF on HMX-1. The markings on the tail state it is a VH-3A and its serial number is 147145, as far as I can tell. When I googled that serial number, I got this info, which would appear to tally with the airframe. 

 

"61-009, YHSS-2, 147145, NOTES: DELIVERED TO THE USN ON 20 DECEMBER 1959. RE-DESIGNATED HSS-2, AND AGAIN AS SH-3A ON 18 SEPTEMBER 1962. LATER, CONVERTED TO A VH-3A. IT WAS STRUCK OFF CHARGE AT NARF PENSACOLA ON 21 AUGUST 1979."

 

It is the ninth H-3 built. I checked the Rotorspot web page and they have it listed as "withdrawn from use" so it appears it never went onto the US civil register.

 

 

LD.

[andyf117]

1 hour ago, Loach Driver said:

And going back to the VH-3A with the three windows along the fuselage, I found this photo in a PDF on HMX-1. The markings on the tail state it is a VH-3A and its serial number is 147145, as far as I can tell.

I have that .pdf, and again hadn't noticed the VH-3's window arrangement - but did immediately recognise the BuNo, from @Bill K's posts on the preceding page, including: "147145 was a sliding door VH-3A. Another bird that I was the crew chief." Are you in this March 1974 photo, Bill?

[Bill K]

I'm in the picture but not visible. Left side back row third in. My friend Eric Jecubic shifted to his right as the picture was taken. His twin brother is next to him on his left. In the film days no way to look at the picture. That picture is a large amount of the white side personnel. Not the green side. The hanger behind us was the white side. There were 4 hangers in a row at Quantico. They did build another new hanger for the white side attached and between the white and green hanger. I attached a picture of the construction. That's Goodnight and Short in the picture. Both great guys. SSgt Short passed away several years ago.

That's a great picture of MX-14. I will have to look for that issue.

When we put the D models in service there was a lot of VH-3As that were excess. Both Army and Marine Corps as the Army went out of business. That decision was made after D models were built for them. We had D and A models stored everywhere.

Of the 3 SH-3Gs, MX-15 was in great shape, 14 tended to have oil leaks into the cabin. Not good for the VIP kit inside. MX-16 was a hard luck bird. Had an inflight fire and another time the sheet metal shop twisted and broke off the tail while dye penetrating the hinges. Always had problems but they were old birds.

 

[Loach Driver]

I don't recall where I found this piece of artwork but it does feature a sliding-door VH-3A in ARMY colours. The other H-3s appear to be accurately depicted in this artwork so perhaps we can assume that the markings and configuration of the VH-3A is fairly accurate. It looks like the rear door has a bigger panoramic window. Hopefully we will discover a photo of this ship showing the sliding door side of the airframe.

 

 

LD.

[andyf117]

37 minutes ago, Loach Driver said:

I don't recall where I found this piece of artwork but it does feature a sliding-door VH-3A in ARMY colours. The other H-3s appear to be accurately depicted in this artwork so perhaps we can assume that the markings and configuration of the VH-3A is fairly accurate. It looks like the rear door has a bigger panoramic window. Hopefully we will discover a photo of this ship showing the sliding door side of the airframe.

Comes from here: http://www.shipbucket.com/vehicles/6252

[Loach Driver]

Thanks Andy.

 

I did some more digging. I didn't think a google search of "VH-3A" would be likely to throw up any further photos of 147145. If you search for JFK and VH-3 you'll get plenty of hits. I decided to use a similar search method and moved onto LBJ and VH-3. I reckoned either he or President Nixon were likely to be the two presidents who would have flown aboard our aircraft of interest. I didn't find any photos of 147145 initially. I did find this video though and this appears to be the sliding-door VH-3A. Things start at around 13:16. It appears Richard Nixon is paying a visit to the LBJ Ranch and is seen departing in 147145. We get to see the right-hand side of the fuselage and the window arrangement on that side as well as the window size of the sliding door, which appears to possibly be larger than the standard window size. It looks like the sliding door window is blanked off, possibly with a curtain. The air conditioning unit is also fitted to the right-hand sponson. No placard is carried in the placard holder. I took a few images from the video. They are not of great quality but they give a good impression of the aircraft. The golf cart in the video is Cushman Golfster, just in case anyone wants to add an interesting little detail to their VH-3A display!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I kept digging and I found a few further images from the LBJ years.

 

 

 

 

LD. 

 

[Dutch]

Oooh!  Look at that open top Caddie limo with running boards for the Secret Service agents in the last photo!  Where can I get one of those to display with the VH-3A?  Also the hardtop Lincoln limo in the background?  

[Tank]

33 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Where can I get one of those to display with the VH-3A?

Unfortunately it appears nothing is close. There are some 1/32 kits but no 1/32-35 Seakings. There is a 1/43 ‘73 caddie from Western Models (closed in 2007). Might be able to find a 3D print either in scale or ask them to scale down but it’s harder to search for those and quality can be a concern. 

I would like to be proven wrong.

[andyf117]

8 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

Thanks Andy.

 

I did some more digging. I didn't think a google search of "VH-3A" would be likely to throw up any further photos of 147145. If you search for JFK and VH-3 you'll get plenty of hits. I decided to use a similar search method and moved onto LBJ and VH-3. I reckoned either he or President Nixon were likely to be the two presidents who would have flown aboard our aircraft of interest.

Nice finds! I've actually already been searching for LBJ-era photos, but have so far come up empty - particularly annoying because of this little lot:

 

[Loach Driver]

Here is a slightly clearer version of that photo, from the Army Aviation Museum, vie Ray Wilhite. 👍

 

It looks like the two VH-3As parked side-by-side are both sliding door VH-3s while the one furthest to the right is a VH-3A without the rear sliding door. I'm not sure what role the OH-6A was used in, possibly the unit hack or flight proficiency aircraft. Who knows.

 

 

LD.

[andyf117]

13 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

Here is a slightly clearer version of that photo, from the Army Aviation Museum, vie Ray Wilhite. 👍

 

It looks like the two VH-3As parked side-by-side are both sliding door VH-3s while the one furthest to the right is a VH-3A without the rear sliding door. I'm not sure what role the OH-6A was used in, possibly the unit hack or flight proficiency aircraft. Who knows.

Excellent, thanks for that - my version came from a book...

....I think you're correct regarding the pair of VH-3As...

....as for the OH-6, sure I've seen a photo of it somewhere, but currently don't recall where...

[Loach Driver]

I found this photo in an SH-3 book.

 

 

It shows the rear of the undercarriage sponson on the left side. It appears to have a vent or exhaust for some type of system housed withing the sponson itself. The air conditioning unit (or its motor) is mounted externally on the right sponson so perhaps this is the cabin heater in the left sponson. If you look closely at a few of the other pics of the sliding-door VH-3A, this vent and associated grill is just discernible. I have looked at various photos of the VH-3A and this grill/exhaust port is not present on the VH-3A during its entry into service with JFK but appears to have been added sometime afterwards. It is also present on the later VH-3D during the Reagan era.

 

Here also is a photo of the sponson on the other side, taken at the LBJ ranch in 1966. Some interesting detail for the modeller.

 

 

LD.  

Edited October 12, 2023 by Loach Driver

[Bill K]

Nice pictures of early VH-3As. No FOD shield for the engines yet. The shield was a pain. The bolts had to get potting compound or rain would leak into the cockpit. I figured how to remove the engine with the FOD shield in place. Would remove the starter, held be a clamp, support it with 0.40 safety wire. Saved a lot of time.

The pod on the right sponson is the APP. The 3 SH-3Gs did not have the APP. That is why they never went on trips for support. We would use a NC-8 or 10 power unit to start #1 engine. The port side sponson screen was for the A/C. Seems that the early VH-3As had the flotation bags removed from the sponson. They were  on the A models during my time but not installed on the D models.

That chart of the H-3s is very nice.

I'm still getting an error message for some of the pictures I'm trying to attach. Is there a size limit?

 

[Loach Driver]

Thanks for that information. Clarifies some of my errors!

 

The difficulty in posting images could be down to size. If you use a photo website to host the image and then link the image to your post here on arc, it should work.

 

LD.

[andyf117]

The single statnard-size window in the book's photo suggests that's one of the sliding-door aircraft again.

The AC grille (still present on current aircraft) can be seen clearly in this shot from the Nixon library - note that the sponson became longer and 'pointier'; associated trunking to/from the cabin was also added, which ran from just below the forward airstair aft under the sponson's stub, and across to the sponson as an extension to the trailing edge of the stub itself.

 

 

 

[Bill K]

Here is a VH-3A most likely during President Nixon. Notice the cover over the forward fuel fill. The fuel cap itself would have a lead seal with the last 3 digits of the bureau number crimped into the seal. Every white side A/C had a crimper and all tanks were sealed this included the fuel trucks. The pilot (unknown) is wearing the trip suite, also called the Ralph Crandon, from the TV show the Honeymooners. This was worn on trips while the USMC and Army shared lifts. Enlisted wore a blue felt baseball cap with the Presidential patch sewn on. Rank chevrons had the black paint stripped off and the brass polished. We all had the yellow scarf. The jump suite and ball cap was bought at Sears out of our own pocket. The copilot and pilot's head set can be seen hanging over the seats. On the white side we never work helmets or the survival vest. I believe when I got orders to the white side I turned in my flight gear.

The covers aft of the presidential seal were to service the Air Conditioner. The small fold down seat behind the pilot was a pain because the crew chief had to sit facing the door. Can't watch the gauges or look for aircraft. I never used it and don't think many guys did. The seat was better in the D models as it faced forward. I didn't use it on lifts so not to wrinkle my trousers and god forbid it got stuck in the open position. The seat by the window would most likely have a secret service sitting there. They would open and close the divider into the main cabin. Didn't let them touch anything else such as heat and a/c. 

[andyf117]

LBJ-era photo  from the National Archives, showing those polished-up rank chevrons:

Dark green airstairs carpeting at that point - early Kennedy-era aircraft variously had none (grey risers with natural or painted metal tread) or three-quarters width beige carpet; then came the dark green; the early VH-3D introduced a mustard yellow/brown, later replaced by grey, still seen today...

Edited October 19, 2023 by andyf117

[Cubs2jets]

I'd have thought they would've used brushes and hoses...

 

C2j

[andyf117]

Think I know where you found that one - I downloaded it yesterday from eBay...

....I was waiting for the right moment to post it here, in order to make a splash...

....but guess that idea's just been scuppered! 🤣

[Bill K]

That is the CO, Colonel Pirnie, doing the water touch and go. I believe it was near the Sikorsky factory. The same picture hung in the hanger. What a great picture of a outstanding Officer and pilot doing what he did best.

[Bill K]

Here is a very good drawing of the VH-3A interior with the rear air stairs door.

[Loach Driver]

Thanks for sharing that drawing. It's great to see a diagram of the interior laid out so clearly. Seating for 16 - would it ever have flown with all seats occupied with the President on-board?

 

LD.