Sysxii Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I'm looking to build a 1/48 Mirage F1, and have been leaning toward the SAAF version that sported Russian R-73 missiles. I have seen the Hataka paint line for SAAF, but I haven't looked much into the markings for this version, so I am thinking of just a French version as a back up. What would be the better kit for this, Kitty Hawk or Italeri? Thanks, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Kitty Hawk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenshb Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 For it's faults, Kitty Hawk is better. The windshield of the Italeri (ex-ESCI) kit is too wide and doesn't capture that sleek look of the F.1. The nose profile of the KittyHawk kit needs a bit of sanding as it looks a but "droopy", but the plastic is thick enough to do that. The radome should be a very faint ogival shape (it's not a straight cone, but has a subtle curve to it). That will improve the appearance greatly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) The Scaleworx Mirage F-1AZ conversion set incudes a whole new front fuselage and a vacuformed canopy. The wide windshield of the Esci/Italeri kit is corrected. http://spring-air.com/scaleworx/home/8-148-mirage-f1az-conversion-italeriesci.html There's also a conversion for the Kittyhawk kit but I don't know its content. http://spring-air.com/scaleworx/home/11-148-mirage-f-1az-kitty-hawk.html Edited March 26, 2021 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon91352 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Renaissance from France offers a very extensive correction set for the elderly ESCI/ Italeri kit. https://www.scalemates.com/de/kits/renaissance-48049-amd-ba-mirage-f1-1-48--725586 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 On 3/26/2021 at 1:50 AM, Sysxii said: I'm looking to build a 1/48 Mirage F1, and have been leaning toward the SAAF version that sported Russian R-73 missiles. I have seen the Hataka paint line for SAAF, but I haven't looked much into the markings for this version, so I am thinking of just a French version as a back up. Just be aware that this could be a bit tricky: The aircraft on which the R-73s actually flew in 1993 was a Mirage F1CZ. This aircraft was in the SAAF "Low Viz" Mirage F1CZ scheme: Later, a Mirage F1AZ was modified with a SMR-95 engine, which was based on the RD-33 but had a completely unique nozzle set that was different from the nozzles used on the MiG-29. This F1AZ, tail number 216, was only statically displayed with R-73s and from what I recall, never actually flew with the R-73s. It was displayed with R-73s at AAD 2000 in South Africa but the aircraft didn't fly at all at that airshow. The aircraft also participated at MAKS 2001 at Zhukovskiy, and for that airshow the aircraft did do a full low-level aerobatic display. However, those flights were all done without the missiles and the R-73s were only mounted for the static display on the ground. If you want to do #216 for a static display aircraft with R-73s (or a what-if where it flies with them), you may be faced with quite a challenge due to that unique SMR-95 engine installation. Here is the R-73 on F1AZ #216 (as I said, static only): And a picture (also at MAKS 2001) where you can clearly see the nozzle arrangement. It would be a unique, but rather challenging build as you would have to convert an ESCI or KittyHawk Mirage F1 to a F1AZ, and then find a way to replace the nozzle. If you really want a R-73 on a Mirage F1, the Mirage F1CZ shown earlier might be much easier to do. I would have to ask around a bit, but I'm not aware of a R-73 ever flying on a "standard" Mirage F1AZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sysxii Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Thank you, Mfezi for all of this information! I will say that I have begun to change my mind on this project now having learned all of this. I definitely was wondering about the engine nozzle part of things, since I really couldn't find any photos of it. So it seems that it was never an operational thing to carry R-73s, rather more of a demonstrator of sorts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sysxii Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Thank you, Mfezi for all of this information! I will say that I have begun to change my mind on this project now having learned all of this. I definitely was wondering about the engine nozzle part of things, since I really couldn't find any photos of it. So it seems that it was never an operational thing to carry R-73s, rather more of a demonstrator of sorts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sysxii Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Thank you, Mfezi for all of this information! I will say that I have begun to change my mind on this project now having learned all of this. I definitely was wondering about the engine nozzle part of things, since I really couldn't find any photos of it. So it seems that it was never an operational thing to carry R-73s, rather more of a demonstrator of sorts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sysxii Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Thank you, Mfezi for all of this information! I will say that I have begun to change my mind on this project now having learned all of this. I definitely was wondering about the engine nozzle part of things, since I really couldn't find any photos of it. So it seems that it was never an operational thing to carry R-73s, rather more of a demonstrator of sorts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 9 hours ago, Sysxii said: Thank you, Mfezi for all of this information! I will say that I have begun to change my mind on this project now having learned all of this. I definitely was wondering about the engine nozzle part of things, since I really couldn't find any photos of it. So it seems that it was never an operational thing to carry R-73s, rather more of a demonstrator of sorts? There is a whole story around those R-73s, but it happened while I was still a student so I learned most of the details later from my senior colleagues, most of whom are retired now. However, from what I remember, the locally developed V3B Kukri's were very ineffective and the SAAF was desperately looking for a good all aspect missile. The V3C also didn't have the capability they required. Since some sanctions against South Africa were still in place at the time, they were a little limited in where they could look, so they eventually bought a small number of R-73s from Russia for evaluation. From everything I heard, they raved about these missiles: They were extremely capable at the time compared to anything else available. However (again from what I can remember), the adapter kit made the installation quite heavy. The Mirage F1CZ's were also being retired so the timing was suddenly not that critical anymore. Eventually, South Africa bought a large number of Python 4's from Israel (which flew in the SAAF service as the V3S) and these mostly ended up on the Cheetahs and remained the main short-range missile for the Cheetah C through most of its career. A few people that I spoke to still believe the R-73 was on balance a slightly better missile than the Python 4, but the Python didn't require the overhead of the adapters and was therefore more suitable for local use. So in short, yes: The R-73 only flew on the Mirage F1CZ briefly as part of an evaluation, and was later statically shown on the "Super Mirage F1AZ" as a potential combined offering for anyone interested in doing the SMR-95 engine upgrade. Once again, the engine upgrade was very successful: The aircraft flew something like 60 test sorties with that engine and it was considered a huge success. However, once again, the SAAF decided it was time to buy an entirely new aircraft (the Gripen C and D were eventually chosen), so the Mirage F1AZs were also retired and the engine upgrade was eventually limited to a single Mirage and a single Cheetah. Some footnotes: South Africa's local missile development and associated technology did eventually catch up and they now produce the excellent V3E A-Darter which is an extremely good modern infrared missile. A lot of the work that went into developing the SMR-95 engine eventually made it into the RD-93 which powers the JF-17. So at least not all of that effort was wasted either. If you want to read about the incident that led to the SAAF's search for a proper all aspect missile, go here for an incredible story: Arthur Piercy Story Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sysxii Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 First off, sorry for the multiple copies of the same post. I had trouble posting my reply from earlier, as it wouldn't load to the next page, so I just hit refresh a couple times. Seems like it took every post anyway. Thankfully I wasn't paying for anything 😄 Yes from what I everything that I've read over the years, the R-73 was quite the capable missile, especially with the 45 degree off bore sight shot capability. Thank you again for all of this very interesting information. I will be sure to check out that story you linked in you reply. Do you by chance have any other good sources on the SAAF during that time and perhaps with the Gripen? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 22 hours ago, Sysxii said: I will be sure to check out that story you linked in you reply. Do you by chance have any other good sources on the SAAF during that time and perhaps with the Gripen? There are various books about the SAAF from that time, such as "Vlamgat" by Gen Dick Lord (specifically focuses on the Mirage F1 in SAAF service), "From Fledgling to Eagle" also by Gen Lord (more general history of the post WWII SAAF) and then there are also some coffee table / picture books if you google around a bit. I would have to look through my book shelf. On the Cheetah, there is a book by Winston Brent called "Cheetah - Guardians of the Nation" that is pretty detailed. However, as for more recent history, like the Gripen in SAAF service, I doubt you will find much at this stage. There is an "unofficial" SAAF website on which you may also be able to find a lot of info: http://www.saairforce.co.za/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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