dai phan Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) Hi all, On metal Migs many have the airbrakes painted in darker color. Here are some photos for your references. Dai Edited October 11, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 It is not painted, this is stainless steel panel of the air brake. They did not polish it, it was like this as it is. Same stainless steel airbrake panels were used on earlier MiG-15 versions. The rounded panel covering the actuating hydraulic jack is painted simply because it was from ordinary cast metal which in most cases would rust away easily. So it had to be painted for corrosion protection and to go with the rest of the aircraft it was painted with Aluminium paint. The second photo shows clearly streaks of rust running down the stainless steel surface from the rounded panel. Some air forces repainted this part of the airbrake with different colours. The first and last photo is a good example when the whole aircraft is painted with Aluminium paint, the surface becomes featureless and very uniform, there are no rivets visible only the bigger screw heads or service panels! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 20 hours ago, ya-gabor said: It is not painted, this is stainless steel panel of the air brake. They did not polish it, it was like this as it is. Same stainless steel airbrake panels were used on earlier MiG-15 versions. The rounded panel covering the actuating hydraulic jack is painted simply because it was from ordinary cast metal which in most cases would rust away easily. So it had to be painted for corrosion protection and to go with the rest of the aircraft it was painted with Aluminium paint. The second photo shows clearly streaks of rust running down the stainless steel surface from the rounded panel. Some air forces repainted this part of the airbrake with different colours. The first and last photo is a good example when the whole aircraft is painted with Aluminium paint, the surface becomes featureless and very uniform, there are no rivets visible only the bigger screw heads or service panels! Best regards Gabor Thank you very much for your information ! Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Hi all, I did not install the fuselage antenna until after painting as I do not want to knock it off during sanding and painting. BIG mistake. The antenna base just does not seat well into the recessed box even after thining the base and the rectangular border gaps just look horrible, especially on NMF. After sanding and filling that went no where, I cut the antenna off and sand the base smooth with the airframe. Imagine doing that on painted NMF surface! I will highlight the base by shadowing it with dry brushing then glue the antenna with white glue. Here you can see my unexperienced mistakes. On the real plane, you barely see the base. On the kit, way to pronounced and on NMF, sticks out like a sore foot unless it is Tamiya's fit ! Dai Edited October 13, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Hi all, I got a reply from Ammo regarding the seat and the attachments. I tried the resin seat again and it does not fit. Ammo instruction says to scrape of the tubings molded in the sides so the sides can fit flush to allow the fuselage halves to fit without the gap. Could this make a change in width that makes mine not fitting and Ammo to fit? Here is the images sent from Ammo. Dai Good morning, How are you? I hope you are very well. We did tests during development and now after receiving your message with two seats. As you can see in the attached pictures the seat fits perfectly and is more correct both in dimensions and detail if you compare it with the plastic one. Please can you send us a picture of the seat in place to try to see what could be the problem? Thank you for contacting us, I look forward to your response. -- Wendy García Edited October 13, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Greetings, There are 2 possibilities on why Ammo fits and mine does not. First perhaps the side tubings were not sanded down as recommended in the addendum sheet so their test piece has wider width than mine. Second the use of the Red Fox 3D panels decreases the width of the tube thus not allowing the resin seat to sit. You can see the Ammo test is without the 3D panels. I have 3 spare kits so I am going to test fit the resin seat as is and will let you know shortly. Dai Edited October 13, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) OK gangs, I see the problem now. If you assemble the tube as IS without shaving the side tubes, then you will have the proper width (barely) to fit the resin seat. But then the fuselage may not close properly. You can see the gap pointed by the arrow on Ammo test piece. Second if you use the 3D panels this will reduce the width even more making the resin seat impossible to fit. Conclusion? The resin seat is oversized and should be at the same width as the plastic seat. You still can use the resin seat if you do not shave the tubings but shave the mating surfaces on the tub/fuselage allowing the fuselage halves to fit without the gap. And if you use the 3D panels, shave extra of the plastic say .5 mm more so the panels would not affect the fit of the resin seat. Way too much work in my view. Ammo should go ahead and resize and reprint to save us lots of hassles. And offer to send us replacements free of charge. Dai PS: I reckon when the resin company designed the seat they did it without knowing the sides tubes have to be sanded down affecting the width. Also did not account for the thickness of the 3D panels. Edited October 13, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) Howdy modelers, I use the kit's mask on the canopy and it is not as accurate as it could be. Poor adhesion allows paint seepage so I went ahead and order the Eduard's mask. The front windshield does not fit well so I should have glued it in, puttied and sanded then paint the airframe. You could get away waiting at the last minute to install but not on this one due to poor fit. Dai Edited October 13, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, dai phan said: . . . As you can see in the attached pictures the seat fits perfectly and is more correct both in dimensions and detail if you compare it with the plastic one. Please can you send us a picture of the seat in place to try to see what could be the problem? Thank you for contacting us, I look forward to your response. -- Wendy García I am sorry but this is simply not true! The 3D printed seat is about 1 mm wider than what the real seat is like! How do I know? Simple, I have the real “Curtain” type MiG-17 seat here in front of me at home! The width of the seat is one thing which can be definitely compared on different aftermarket makes, since the height of the real seat can be adjusted and it is not really clear which manufacturer is producing their seat in which setting. But the width of the seat is always the same, so comparison should be made based on this. The widest point is at the front, on the covers of the leg rest hydraulic dampeners. Actually the plastic seat in the AMMO kit is almost the right size, only about 0.2mm smaller than the original seat. Best regards Gabor Edited October 14, 2023 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 14, 2023 Author Share Posted October 14, 2023 3 hours ago, ya-gabor said: I am sorry but this is simply not true! The 3D printed seat is about 1 mm wider than what the real seat is like! How do I know? Simple, I have the real “Curtain” type MiG-17 seat here in front of me at home! The width of the seat is one thing which can be definitely compared on different aftermarket makes, since the height of the real seat can be adjusted and it is not really clear which manufacturer is producing their seat in which setting. But the width of the seat is always the same, so comparison should be made based on this. The widest point is at the front, on the covers of the leg rest hydraulic dampeners. Actually the plastic seat in the AMMO kit is almost the right size, only about 0.2mm smaller than the original seat. Best regards Gabor I will link this thread to Wendy so she knows. I think we both agree the resin seat is oversized. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 14, 2023 Author Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) Hello everyone, In the booth for the clear coat to be applied. The Intermediate Gauzy Agent is good stuff but suffers from short shelf life once opened. I have to buy a new bottle each time I do NMF unless the bottle was opened less than 3 months ago. Dai Edited October 14, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) Greetings, Decals are applied and ready for the final clear coat. The antennas on the wings have poor fit so I had to do lots of trimmings to make them flushed but still looks horrible. With this kit you need to glue all small parts, fill, sand then paint rather than toward the end. The decals are strong and have excellent adhesion but thick like Tamiya’s. The red on the insignias have an orange hue rather than strong red. Dai Edited November 29, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 Greetings, So far my thoughts on this near completion project. The Premium Edition is a let down due to the oversized seat. You still can use the seat if you sand the inside of the fuse and the mating surface of the tub. Too much work that you should not have to do. The Red Fox 3D panel is usable but likely to be the wrong color as Gabor has pointed out. The Ginger Cat mask is non usable as the wheel masks are over sized and poor adhesion that allows paint seepage. Part fits is average at best. I left out some small parts to be glued in after the airframe painted but it was a mistake. The lower wing antennas and front windshield fit poorly that requires lots of trimming, puttying and sanding. Imagine doing this on already painted NMF surface! Except for the fact the kit is more accurate then the HB kit, I do not see much significant improvements. With so much anticipation of this release I am disappointed. Unless Ammo reprints the seat, has new company to make the mask, I see nothing Premium Edition offers at this time. Save the extra 30 USD and get the regular version. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thadeus Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I have a feeling a lot of aftermarket seats are a little off, very often in order to fit the kit they were designed for. So I guess if they did the seat especially for the Ammo MiG cockpit it could be the same case here. You MiG however looks great, with or without the ejection seat. Keep up the great work. I hope my early MiG's will end up half as good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 17, 2023 Author Share Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) Hi all, Final clear coat applied and ready for weathering. Love Cie Edited October 17, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) HI all, The wash is completed. Dai Edited October 19, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 Howdy all, The kit does not have the linkages as shown. Quite odd for the omission. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Greetings, The resin ladder did not fare any better than the resin seat. Instead of over sized, it is way under sized. Way too short so un-usable. Or perhaps this is the type of ladder for the pilots to get onto the wings then to the cockpit? Dai Edited October 20, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 20, 2023 Author Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Ok gangs, The project is completed. PROS: 1. The best 1/48 Mig-17. 2. Finely engraved panel lines. 3. Open air brakes and dropped flaps. 4. Control surfaces can be posed at different positions with minor modifications (tabs removed). CONS: 1. Average fit at best. 2. The resin seat, rear canopy PE and ladder are un-usable due to wrong size. 3. Mask is un-usable due to inaccurate size and poor adhesion that causes paint seepage. 4. Many parts have no positive locking mechanism. The air brake is an example. You have to know where the parts go and use CA to glue. 5. Premium Edition due to short comings does not add any value to the kit. Seat is over sized and ladder is undersized. 6. Missing linkages on the main landing gear. 7. Oversized nose gear struts (very noticeable). 8. Lack of rivets. Pennyfront decal is strong with excellent adhesion but thick and the red has an orange tint rather than deep red. The Ammo kit offers better accuracy than the Hobby Boss kit. However part fit is average at best and Premium Edition does not live up to its name. I would rate this kit as average. Dai Edited November 29, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) Hi all, From clockwise: Hobby Craft, Hobby Boss and Ammo Mig 17 Fs in 1/48. Dai Edited October 22, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Great looking triple display of MiGs. The kink in the AMMO kit's wings is very prominent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, ST0RM said: Great looking triple display of MiGs. The kink in the AMMO kit's wings is very prominent. Yes and the front windshield of the Hobby Craft is very wrong. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeneK Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Great thread, Dai. I appreciate your technical and hobby expertise, as well as the skill involved with putting the thread together. Thanks, Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 22, 2023 Author Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 hours ago, GeneK said: Great thread, Dai. I appreciate your technical and hobby expertise, as well as the skill involved with putting the thread together. Thanks, Gene K Thank you for your so kind words but I am just an average builder at best. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Curt B Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 14 hours ago, dai phan said: Hi all, From clockwise: Hobby Craft, Hobby Boss and Ammo Mig 17 Fs in 1/48. Dai Dai, Many thanks for the details you provided on your MiG-17 build, and the comparison between the 3 kits. You did a great job on the new one, looks really great, and you did all of us a great service in pointing out the problems with the AMMO kit. I appreciate all you've done! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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