Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Trying to figure out in the area circled in red if there's an intake that was put there, or if it's just a trick of the light that I see. Don't try to analyze the pod too much, it's a nonworking prop made as disinformation for the Stealth program's A-7's when it was still top secret. 😄 So, intake or no? These pseudo-pods were described as having false exhausts and intakes, etc. Any chance that's a big intake there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cool Hand Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Looks like it's just a reflection of the skylight in the high-gloss paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Assuming you mean the side of the circled area (what looks like a circular fill port is on the top), I'd bet on this just being a reflection of lights at the ceiling. Other than the bright wedge shape there doesn't seem to be any change in color/reflection on that section that would be there if there was any physical change in the shape - even dialing up the exposure and contrast to "enhance" anything that might have been there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 2 minutes ago, Quixote74 said: Assuming you mean the side of the circled area (what looks like a circular fill port is on the top), I'd bet on this just being a reflection of lights at the ceiling. Other than the bright wedge shape there doesn't seem to be any change in color/reflection on that section that would be there if there was any physical change in the shape - even dialing up the exposure and contrast to "enhance" anything that might have been there.  Ah, yes, I should have specified the side, the little port on top is easy enough to see and build. See, the descriptions included "fake intakes", and I just can't seem to find anything like that unless it was only on the other side. Also mentioned multiple false radio blades, but only one is visible to me. As far as in the circle, yes, I mostly look at that bit and think it's just a reflection on the glossy paint, as both you and CoolHand concur, the light bit at the bottom of it makes me wonder if it's even possible that could be a big, rectangular-ish fake intake put there. Certainly would make it more interesting 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 With the discrepancies between the verbal descriptions and the photo (which is obviously a "museum" piece), there are a few possibilities. The pod in the photo could've had some elements deleted - e.g. antenna or applied intake parts removed - or just on the other side not visible in the photo. Or it's also possible that more than one travel pod got this treatment with custom differences between them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 Fair enough, I'm convinced....thanks so much! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 The brownish sphere on the nose looks like a Luneburg lens, a radar reflector to increase the radar cross section. Â Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 (edited) Actually, they said they used a front lens from an electro-optically guided glide bomb if I recall....it was a prop meant to fool observers who knew these A-7's were attached to the Stealth program while it was still top secret, so there was nothing functional about it. Except that they put a flashing red light in the nose lens. Edited January 3 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 17 hours ago, Quixote74 said: With the discrepancies between the verbal descriptions and the photo (which is obviously a "museum" piece), there are a few possibilities. The pod in the photo could've had some elements deleted - e.g. antenna or applied intake parts removed - or just on the other side not visible in the photo. Or it's also possible that more than one travel pod got this treatment with custom differences between them.  As I'm making mine, I'm considering adding 1-2 more blade antennae underneath...wondering if the cradle might be hiding one? No way of knowing, but might look the part.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Apparently this pod is now at the Hill Aerospace Museum. A better photo here:  https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/315349817_1338320730245143_87276247265972734_n.jpg  The OP's pic was when it was displayed at Tonopah.   Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 (edited) 50 minutes ago, habu2 said: Apparently this pod is now at the Hill Aerospace Museum. A better photo here:  https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/315349817_1338320730245143_87276247265972734_n.jpg  The OP's pic was when it was displayed at Tonopah.    Oh, wow!! Those are BLADE antennae on the sides then, not the bulges I thought!  Gotta redo those now, but I'm thankful!!  LOVE how you can even read the white stencilling near the front that says "Reactor Cooling Fill Port" 😄 Edited January 3 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Ok, how's this look so far for 1/72 then? Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Looks great so far - probably too much to hope someone near Hill could get a photo or two of what's hidden by the cradle, but I expect the bottom is most likely spot for more antennae of any description.  Thanks to @habu2's info I found a slightly higher resolution copy of the Hill AFB Museum IG image (linked). There's another partly legible warning stencil below the squadron badges, and some smaller text and rivets (as for another possible antenna?) just visible below the red/black RF warning sticker. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Illu Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Why would a baggage pod have antennas on it?  It’s for carrying golf clubs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 32 minutes ago, Illu said: Why would a baggage pod have antennas on it?  It’s for carrying golf clubs. This was a gag worked up by the 4450th TFG when they were flying A-7s in public and F-117s in secret (before the stealth fighter was publicly acknowledged). Note the red text: "Klingon Cloaking Device"  Top secret gear to hide your nuclear wessels and other sensitive subjects 👽🚀 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Quixote74 said: Looks great so far - probably too much to hope someone near Hill could get a photo or two of what's hidden by the cradle, but I expect the bottom is most likely spot for more antennae of any description.   Been re-thinking that, now I'm wondering if there was nothing below. I mean, they were making a prop, but didn't necessarily want to make something too difficult to handle and store. The last photo that you and Habu shared showed me where other blade antennae were (sides).  Only other thing I'm wondering is that I remember reading somewhere that they slapped nuclear stickers on it; I'm thinking either it was on some and not others, or on all of them and the markings seen in the photos here are not what they actually flew with but are for display purposes only. Maybe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Well for sure the thing is based on a BLU 27 napalm canister that has been modified to become an MXU 648 travel pod. These were standardized and were governed by their own Tech Orders. They could be locally manufactured or at least they used to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 Exactly. I'd always said that if I built a 4450th A-7D, I'd want to build it with the fake pods they devised to fool observers during one of their deployments overseas in the 80's. They knew they'd be known to those-in-the-know that their unit was rumored to be the one operating stealth fighters. So they thought, why not make them wonder if the A-7's are specially modified and are themselves the shadowy stealth fighters? They took simple napalm canisters/travel pods and fitted them out with false aerials, intakes, and a big flashing light on the front. They put on quite a show! So, this is for the A-7D which is also in progress here 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) IIRC the 4450th A-7s did train with the AN/AAR-45 LANA FLIR pod carried under the stbd wing.  edit: links added  https://www.vought.org/special/html/slana.html   Edited January 4 by habu2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said: Only other thing I'm wondering is that I remember reading somewhere that they slapped nuclear stickers on it; I'm thinking either it was on some and not others, or on all of them and the markings seen in the photos here are not what they actually flew with but are for display purposes only. Maybe?  "Nuclear" may be a reference to the "REACTOR COOLING FILL PORT" stencil and/or the red/black diamond which is, IIRC, a warning label for high-energy RF output (i.e. radiation) as most frequently seen on jamming pods like the ALQ series.  I wonder if this was flown in "full public view" prior to at least the initial F-117 acknowledgement, as it seems like an obvious joke - along the same lines as the staged "invisible plane" photos and gags. Outside their normal operating areas the pod(s) would draw some degree of attention to a top secret program you would think they preferred to avoid. I recall reading that standard procedure on non-secure bases when the A-7s deployed was to have armed guards on the flight line and force all the locals to look the other way. But there are also some precedents of "hiding in plain sight" even when programs are officially "black" (thinking of the F-117 'zap' on the RAF Tornado as just one example). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, Quixote74 said:  "Nuclear" may be a reference to the "REACTOR COOLING FILL PORT" stencil and/or the red/black diamond which is, IIRC, a warning label for high-energy RF output (i.e. radiation) as most frequently seen on jamming pods like the ALQ series.  I wonder if this was flown in "full public view" prior to at least the initial F-117 acknowledgement, as it seems like an obvious joke - along the same lines as the staged "invisible plane" photos and gags. Outside their normal operating areas the pod(s) would draw some degree of attention to a top secret program you would think they preferred to avoid. I recall reading that standard procedure on non-secure bases when the A-7s deployed was to have armed guards on the flight line and force all the locals to look the other way. But there are also some precedents of "hiding in plain sight" even when programs are officially "black" (thinking of the F-117 'zap' on the RAF Tornado as just one example).  My understanding, from what I've read in a couple books and elsewhere, was that it was created specifically for one of the overseas deployments in the A-7's. At first I thought it was to England where there are vast numbers of "spotters", but I'm finding other sources claiming it was SKorea. They knew that aircraft watchers would identify their A-7's as belonging to the Stealth unit; so they thought, why not mess with them? It's a fantastic gag 😄 Edited January 4 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4450th A-7Ds deployed to Kunsan for Operation Team Spirit in 1984. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Weird thing is I was at Nellis at this time. Those jets pretty much flew clean as I remember. There was a ramp full of them down by base ops and T-Birds. they were very active but I think most of their work was around giving stealth guys stick time and supporting their work. The most memorable thing I remember was a late afternoon when one blew a tire and  ground looped right in front of me. You could tell the pilot was hanging on for dear life! He ended up in the infield in a cloud of dust and that was that! I remember another incident was a fatality one night on the range. Not much said about that one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 Any thoughts on whether or not they would've actually had the 4 different badges on it when they actually flew it? Or is it more likely they were only added for display purposes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 21 hours ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said: Any thoughts on whether or not they would've actually had the 4 different badges on it when they actually flew it? Or is it more likely they were only added for display purposes? All but one of the badges on the museum display pod post-date the A-7D's retirement by the 4450th so I would be surprised if any were worn originally.  The nose section has an ACC badge, which would have still been TAC during the 4450th's operations.  The three badges at the rear are, left to right:  49th TFW - anachronistic on two levels, as the F-117s last official operating unit was the 49th FW (no "Tactical") and the 49th never flew A-7Ds at all.  37th TFW - the operating wing for the F-117, 1989-1992 - also never flew A-7Ds, since those were replaced by AT-38Bs in early 1989 after the F-117 was declassified.  4450th TFG - the only badge that is correct for the pod's era, the 4450th flying A-7s and F-117s at Groom Lake and Tonopah from 1981 to their redesignation as the 37th TFW in 1989. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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