Forum censoring or cover up for Vistory Models

[Guest subhuman]

It seems my lengthy post regarding a very very bad transaction with Victory Models has mysteriously disappeared without any explanation.

I don't know if it's just ARC censoring this bad trader alert by me or someone(moderator maybe?) covering up for Victory Models,but nevertheless a very long post with good description of the ordeal has been removed here today that wold have served as a good advice and fair warning to anyone seeking to conduct business with Victory Models (Paul Cotcher)

Summing it up in short ... a month since my order(prior Thanksgiving) - scale size mixup resolved 2 days after T'day(29 Nov) - assured items in stock ready to send - several e-mails & long distance calls later nothing - now it's 22 Dec and still nothing - Items ordered = 2 decal sheets + papaerback A/C booklet

Weeks ago I was told my order had shipped(begginning Dec)

My CC was not debited until 17 Dec - Paul stated my shipment went out without payment (I tried to add on something to the original shipment and couldn't because it supposedly had already shipped out)

Bad business conduct.I have been lied to and decieved by this online vendor and everyone should know!

Excuse me if this is not the proper place for this on this forum.I've looked at all the forums and it seems this is where this belongs.If not then please post it the proper forum and add a link to it,but do not just delete a posting of a bad trade vendor because you either feel the need to cover for him/them.

Fueling censorship may one day lead to your non-existance.Remember that. (Orwell 1984)

[KevinS]

I've purchased from Victory Models at least a dozen times if not 2 dozen times and have never had a problem with them. If you had a problem then I would say this is an isolated incident. Anyone reading the above post has nothing to fear from Victory Models. They are one of the good ones.

I would also suggest that if you are going to post a bad trader alert you should use your name and at least be a registered user.

Kevin

[Steve Filak]

Ken and I have both checked with each other, and neither one of us deleted your post. In fact, I go through all the new posts every day, and I would have remembered this one.

I don't know if it's just ARC censoring this bad trader alert by me or someone(moderator maybe?) covering up for Victory Models,

ARC does not censor bad trader alerts unless they're outright slander, or contain objectionable content or personal insults. You can rest assured that we did not pull your post. Before you go pointing fingers at anyone here, you might want to check your facts first. I can assure you however, that if it DID contain objectionable content, I would have pulled it. That wasn't the case.

do not just delete a posting of a bad trade vendor because you either feel the need to cover for him/them.

Again, why do you feel the need to make these type of insinuations from the cover of an anonymous posting? Do you know how much time and effort that Ken and I spend each and every day filtering through all of the posts here? Trust me, if it was me that deleted your post, I'd be the first one to tell you.

Also, your post would have a lot more credibility if you were to register and provide an e-mail address.

I'm sorry if you had a problem with Victory Models, but I can assure you that there is no second gunman on the grassy knoll here.

Fueling censorship may one day lead to your non-existance.Remember that. (Orwell 1984)

Yup, and freedom of the press belongs to the guy with the printing machine.

[Ken Middleton]

I should add to Steve Filak's post...

Subhuman, it looks like you regietered at about the same time you posted this, but did not sign in to post this message.

Regards

Ken

[MickeyThickey]

I'm sorry if you had a problem with Victory Models, but I can assure you that there is no second gunman on the grassy knoll here.

(puts away gun)

IIRC, SHEB's policy for this section has always been that anonymous posts will be pulled, to avoid possible problems. I could be wrong, though.

[SBARC]

"Subhuman"

Let's look at some basic facts here why I removed your post/thread.

1)No name was included with your post.

Do you think you can slam a business and not even have the backbone to provide your real name? This is quite one sided to say the least and takes away much from your complaint.

2) You charge card was debited on Wednesday Dec 17 and you haven't received the goods by Sun Dec 21. Are you even remotely aware how stupid you appear at this point?

3) Paul did say the goods were shipped etc as you mentioned.....this means it's an issue still in progress between you and Paul.

You have not proven in any way that Paul has done anything wrong here. As far as I know the goods could have been shiped by Paul weeks ago.....although I doubt they were.

This is a situation still far from being resolved and the final outcome of this story has not been written yet. For you to just drop in unregistered at this board for the sole purpose for slamming Victory Models is pathetic beyond understanding.

The goal here is to warn fellow modellers of someone that is actively ripping people off. You are using this forum as your personal "bad girl Fest" in order to get back at Victory Models.....warning fellow modellers of a Bad Trader is the last thing of interest to you.

Phone Paul at Victory Models or write him a letter with the details.....if you want to persist and resolve this by e-mail then you have to be patient with Paul and cut him the slack everyone deserves.

If you want really fast service.....go to a local hobby shop and buy goods over the counter.

---------------------------------

To Ken and Steve F.....my apologies for not warning you I removed this thread. I posted a long reply the other night to the first thread....then I realised I was wasting my time and this particular complaint was a complete waste of space.....so I promptly removed this thread. I'll leave this thread up for a couple of days to permit "Subhuman" to see it.

Steve B

ARC

[Guest Subhuman]

"Subhuman"

Let's look at some basic facts here why I removed your post/thread.

1)No name was included with your post.

Do you think you can slam a business and not even have the backbone to provide your real name?  This is quite one sided to say the least and takes away much from your complaint.

2)  You charge card was debited on Wednesday Dec 17 and you haven't received the goods by Sun Dec 21.  Are you even remotely aware how stupid you appear at this point?

3)  Paul did say the goods were shipped etc as you mentioned.....this means it's an issue still in progress between you and Paul. 

You have not proven in any way that Paul has done anything wrong here.  As far as I know the goods could have been shiped by Paul weeks ago.....although I doubt they were. 

This is a situation still far from being resolved and the final outcome of this story has not been written yet.  For you to just drop in unregistered at this board for the sole purpose for slamming Victory Models is pathetic beyond understanding.

The goal here is to warn fellow modellers of someone that is actively ripping people off.  You are using this forum as your personal "***** Fest" in order to get back at Victory Models.....warning fellow modellers of a Bad Trader is the last thing of interest to you.

Phone Paul at Victory Models or write him a letter with the details.....if you want to persist and resolve this by e-mail then you have to be patient with Paul and cut him the slack everyone deserves.

If you want really fast service.....go to a local hobby shop and buy goods over the counter.

---------------------------------

To Ken and Steve F.....my apologies for not warning you I removed this thread.  I posted a long reply the other night to the first thread....then I realised I was wasting my time and this particular complaint was a complete waste of space.....so I promptly removed this thread.  I'll leave this thread up for a couple of days to permit "Subhuman" to see it.

Steve B

ARC

First of all let me begin by noting the warm welcome here on this message board.

Seems there are a few A'holes here leading this crusade to bash the victim,namely me.

I am a registered user!

I posted as a regsitered user!

My intitial post was posted on this board for several hours as I kept checking for replies and then all of a sudden it vanished. (the leader himself admitted to it along with plenty of hostile atempt to cover Victory Models & Paul Cotcher) Nice try pal .... you can't hide the truth nor the facts.

If you had read my post I clearly stated that my order was made prior to T'day wich is 27 Nov.I believe I ordered on 21 Nov.It wasn't until after T'day that Paul got in touch with me regarding a book that wasn't in stock and we made adjustments to my order in scale sizes.

On 29 Nov with everything in order and Paul's assurance that everything I wanted was in stock and ready to ship the order was supposedly processed.5 days later nothing so I e-mailed him w/o reply.Then I called.This is the second time I had to call.29 Nov was the first time.

I was told my order had shipped out already.

Several days pass and nothing yet.I e-mail again and am told that it's "on the way".

Then I get an e-mail from him stating it had shipped without it being charged.And to contact him for payment.

I call again and submit payment information again and am told that my pacakage is on the way.This is around 12 Dec.

I wait and wait and nothing.

Again an e-mail w/o an answer until a second e-mail get's a reply stating my order has shipped.

I wait again for 5 days - nothing.

I check my CC acount.Charges weren't applied until 17 Dec !!

Today I have received the package postmarked 19 Dec !!!!!

That is almsot exactly a month since my intial order was made!

One month of deceiving lies stating my order had shipped !

His statements about my order having shipped without being billed were also lies!

As much as some of you want to defend this retailer I can assume you won't believe this either.

E-mail and I'll send you proof.I do not wish to trouble myself at this tiem with capturing and editing out personal information on photos and copies of trascripts,but will do so if needed.

As far as some of the replies I've gotten here all I can say is grow up and face reality kids.

The facts are that this online retailer has lied to a customer repeatedly and decieved a customer repeatedly and the actual transaction has taken a month to process an order for 2 lousy decal sheets and flimsy paperback booklet.

The only thing I'll say in favor of this online retailer is that the contents were correct and undamaged.

Other than that I would not recommend conducting business with Victory Models.

Also as you can see your bloated head administrator here thinks he's some type of god that can alter facts and hide the truth as he pleases.

Censorship cannot stop the truth pal.

[Ken Middleton]

I posted as a regsitered user!

If you look at the post at the very top of this, it states you are unregistered. You may have been registered, but you were not logged in when posting the message. I never saw your original message, but your initial sign up to ARC seems to be the same time as this message. I would have to assume your inital message was also posted when you were not logged in.

Steve has a policy, perhaps unwritten, but to make accusations (I am not saying they are not true) without a name or being logged in, it's hard to carry any weight. If you view the General Discussion forum, there are posts about Greatmodels that are still there.

I am not defending or blasting Paul Cotcher. Don't know him, never dealt with him.

Now the comments about warm feelings and bloated "god" administrator, well, you came in here with the top post blasting away at the moderatators - 2 of whom have never seen your message before. You might want to step back for a moment and think about how this all started. Steve B, Steve F and I have much better things to do than yank posts for the heck of it.

Regards

Ken

[Guest Guest]

I posted as a regsitered user!

If you look at the post at the very top of this, it states you are unregistered. You may have been registered, but you were not logged in when posting the message. I never saw your original message, but your initial sign up to ARC seems to be the same time as this message. I would have to assume your inital message was also posted when you were not logged in.

Steve has a policy, perhaps unwritten, but to make accusations (I am not saying they are not true) without a name or being logged in, it's hard to carry any weight. If you view the General Discussion forum, there are posts about Greatmodels that are still there.

I am not defending or blasting Paul Cotcher. Don't know him, never dealt with him.

Now the comments about warm feelings and bloated "god" administrator, well, you came in here with the top post blasting away at the moderatators - 2 of whom have never seen your message before. You might want to step back for a moment and think about how this all started. Steve B, Steve F and I have much better things to do than yank posts for the heck of it.

Regards

Ken

Ken, I can appreciate your last message,although I have to disagree with the last comment about Steve Bamford.He openly admitted to yanking my initial post.And I was registered at that time.

Only motive I can think of is covering for Victory Models.

I've been an eavesdropper on this site for quite some time now,but never really had anything worthwhile to contribute.Until now that is.

I feel my post is appropriate here since down the forum I see similar messages regarding traders/retailers.

I did not start off bashing.I posted chronological occurences - facts.

My initial post was yanked and that's why the message you see on top.Makes sense huh.

Despite Steve Bamford' attempts to stick up for his buddy and try to cover up a Victory Models bogus ethics and service,as you are sticking up for your buddy,I have proof of the occurances and admittance by the affected even.

Lying to and deceiving customers are bad ethics and regardless of past good trades it deserves to mentioned that Victory Models has partaken in a bad choice of retailing ethics.Go on E-bay and read buyers report cards ... same stories.

My intentions are only to make fellow modellers aware of the bad ethics exercised in my instance.

How does the old saying go .... "Once a liar .........

Disclaimer: I had no intentions of slamming any member on here and if you had seen my original post you'd know,but Steve Bamford has made that disappear and has brought my quest to pursue the truth and exploit it.As of this posting he also had banned my ip address from even accessing the site's homepage.

Futile attempt Steve Bamford.I'm years ahead of you and you cannot stop me from exposing the truth no matter how hard you try.So grow up.

[MickeyThickey]

Worst first post since ***** Galore. And, FWIW, the original thread WAS posted by an unregistered user. You weren't logged in when you typed it. Again, I re-iterate:

(sorely tempted to whip out any number of bird-flipping emoticons, since this is going to get zapped anyway - word of advice: instead of venting your spleen all over ARC when it DOES inevitably get deleted, batch at SHEB over PMs rather than dragging everyone else into your ego-centric paranoid delusions)

[Guest Subhuman]

Worst first post since ***** Galore. And, FWIW, the original thread WAS posted by an unregistered user. You weren't logged in when you typed it. Again, I re-iterate:

(sorely tempted to whip out any number of bird-flipping emoticons, since this is going to get zapped anyway - word of advice: instead of venting your spleen all over ARC when it DOES inevitably get deleted, batch at SHEB over PMs rather than dragging everyone else into your ego-centric paranoid delusions)

And what do call what you're doing then?Some people ......

[habu2]

Good God man, with an attitude like that I hope you never expect any support from anyone here.

I saw your first post, and I was the first to reply to it. In fact, since your initial rant was 'unregistered', my reply said you might do better to register and then post.

I met Paul at the IPMS Nats in Dallas about 3 years ago, nice guy. I've placed several orders with him (Victory Models) since then and never had a problem. But then I didn't go and change my order after I made it either...

No one is forcing you to post here. If you don't like it then find some other site to haunt. Life is too short.

[SBARC]

"subhuman"

If you have a complaint about a retailer.....you must use your real name and preferably provide an e-mail. You chose not to do this and you still choose not to do this so I feel your compalint is unfair on any retailer. I do not know Paul at Victory models......I have never ordered from him.....but I believe every business deserves to be treated fairly. You are not being fair by complaining without identifying yourself.

This makes me think you could be not telling the truth and are trying to hide something. It is my duty to be fair to everyone and you are not being fair in this whole matter.

I will remove this thread tomorrow.

Complaints against businesses where the complainer doesn't provide their name will be removed.

This whole matter should have been resolved between you and Paul and has no place here.

You have the goods....Paul has your money.......to me this matter is resolved. If you don't like the way Paul did business with you then never order from him again.

Steve B

[Murph]

subhuman,

As long as we're quoting people try Mason Cooley: "Nonsense is socially OK, but not stupidity."

Regards,

Murph

[DangerAtom]

Hell, I'm just here for the laughs. Good one Murph.

[MickeyThickey]

Geez, you know things are severe when you can prod a response out of DA! :)

[SBARC]

Threads like this are what my wife calls....."The Soap Opera Threads"......

She could be onto something. Heck even DA woke up....he must of had flashbacks to the old days on RMS.

Steve B

[Guest Guest_subhuman]

Threads like this are what my wife calls....."The Soap Opera Threads"...... :D

She could be onto something. Heck even DA woke up....he must of had flashbacks to the old days on RMS.

Steve B

Since you so adamently want to abide by your so-called rules,then let's see the "real names" and proof for the other threads on this very forum.

There isn't any!

Hypocrites are a dime a dozen.

And as for your "good 'ol boy" system buddies running to aid their precious bub's,you're giving me the ultimate in laughs :)

Erase the thread if you want.I have access to 1000's of computers worldwide and just need to cut&paste the info.Takes me seconds.

The truth will be exploited no matter what you jokers do.

It's sad that a pack like you all who've responded so kindly to a newbie would,without a clue,discredit him/her.

BTW nobody has even attempted to inquire about the proof.Not a single one of you.

That should tell everyone something.That you don't want to see/hear the truth.

Have a splendid day gentlemen :)

[Guest Subhuman]

Threads like this are what my wife calls....."The Soap Opera Threads"...... :D

She could be onto something. Heck even DA woke up....he must of had flashbacks to the old days on RMS.

Steve B

OMG ... I thought I had the ultimate laugh until I saw the brand new forum "rules" posted by your fearless leader. LMMFAO

He just made up a set of rules targetting nothing other than exactly what my topic contains.

How predictable a feeble mind can be :)

Of course bad business ethics are nowhere mentioned,unlike on other sites i.e. Ebay with user reports.

Then again from the few who've posted here on this thread I wouldn't expect acknowledgement of proper ethics.be it business or otherwise.

[Tilt]

Hey 'Sub-whatever',

Isn't it way past your bedtime??!! Mommy and Daddy would not be happy if they new their little fella was sneaking time on the computer!!

Now I think it's time you turn off the big computer, grab your teddy bear, and get to bed. Remember...Santa's watching, and he knows when little tikes like you have been bad!!

Nitey night Junior!!

Tilt

[Guest Guest_subhuman]

I have to agree with Steve,

This issue is between you and Victory Models and I think these useless rants don't belong on here at all.

Yes, its fine to warn others about bad traders and such, but I think you're going overboard.

If you have a big issue with Victory Models, email them with your complaints and don't post them here.

It's quite annoying.

If you dont care for the rules, then simply leave and don't come back to ARC.

Check six

Colin K (wondering why he has just responded to this thread)

Saskatoon, SK

CANADA :D

I bet you posted to the other complainers in this forum too.

I have dealt with Victory Models already.

I'm posting here warning other's of bad business ethics exercised by an retailer,namely lying and decieving.Not only once but multiple times.

The fact that shipment was incredibly long is only secondary.

A retailer who lies and decieves his customers deserves to be exploited,would you agree?

Or do you all condone such behaviour here?

[Guest Guest_subhuman]

Hey 'Sub-whatever',

Isn't it way past your bedtime??!! Mommy and Daddy would not be happy if they new their little fella was sneaking time on the computer!!

Now I think it's time you turn off the big computer, grab your teddy bear, and get to bed. Remember...Santa's watching, and he knows when little tikes like you have been bad!!

Nitey night Junior!!

Tilt

And then there's this little typical forum troll type,all of a whopping 33 years old.

Listen sonny boy,I'm old enough to be your dad.In fact maybe you should check your birth records kid.

Nighty night "JUNIOR" :D

[Tilt]

Hey 'Sub-whatever',

Isn't it way past your bedtime??!! Mommy and Daddy would not be happy if they new their little fella was sneaking time on the computer!!

Now I think it's time you turn off the big computer, grab your teddy bear, and get to bed. Remember...Santa's watching, and he knows when little tikes like you have been bad!!

Nitey night Junior!!

Tilt

And then there's this little typical forum troll type,all of a whopping 33 years old.

Listen sonny boy,I'm old enough to be your dad.In fact maybe you should check your birth records kid.

Nighty night "JUNIOR" :)

DAMN!!! I've been found out!!!

How did you figure out I was a troll??!!!

I've been hiding under that mask for a long time now!! Guess I should come clean!!

Okay everyone...My real name is 'Cornelius Talmadge'...I've been spoofing you all for a couple years now. I've never even seen a CF-18 in real life. I once walked behind a pilot at an Airport. And I paid my boss at the laundry mat to build all those models I've showing you.

Ahhh....feels better to come clean!!

Cheers,

Cornelius :)

p.s. I can't believe I'm responding to this drivel!! I guess it must be the fact that I'm working on a work project, and it's almost 2 in the morning, and my brain is on 30% thrust. :D

[SBARC]

Threads like this are what my wife calls....."The Soap Opera Threads"...... :D

She could be onto something.  Heck even DA woke up....he must of had flashbacks to the old days on RMS.

Steve B

OMG ... I thought I had the ultimate laugh until I saw the brand new forum "rules" posted by your fearless leader. LMMFAO

He just made up a set of rules targetting nothing other than exactly what my topic contains.

How predictable a feeble mind can be :)

Of course bad business ethics are nowhere mentioned,unlike on other sites i.e. Ebay with user reports.

Then again from the few who've posted here on this thread I wouldn't expect acknowledgement of proper ethics.be it business or otherwise.

When I set up this forum for Bad Traders......I didn't think there was a need to explain some basic and somewhat obvious rules.

You have proven that it is necessary to point out some boundries to keep things balanced in this particular Forum.

If you feel these rules are directed all at you, then you would be wrong. But this does prove much about the opinion you have of yourself.

Time for you to contact Paul and tell him of your deep displeasure.

ARC is not here for you to cause trouble at others expense.

Steve B

[Guest Guest_subhuman]

Threads like this are what my wife calls....."The Soap Opera Threads"...... :D

She could be onto something.  Heck even DA woke up....he must of had flashbacks to the old days on RMS.

Steve B

OMG ... I thought I had the ultimate laugh until I saw the brand new forum "rules" posted by your fearless leader. LMMFAO

He just made up a set of rules targetting nothing other than exactly what my topic contains.

How predictable a feeble mind can be :)

Of course bad business ethics are nowhere mentioned,unlike on other sites i.e. Ebay with user reports.

Then again from the few who've posted here on this thread I wouldn't expect acknowledgement of proper ethics.be it business or otherwise.

When I set up this forum for Bad Traders......I didn't think there was a need to explain some basic and somewhat obvious rules.

You have proven that it is necessary to point out some boundries to keep things balanced in this particular Forum.

If you feel these rules are directed all at you, then you would be wrong. But this does prove much about the opinion you have of yourself.

Time for you to contact Paul and tell him of your deep displeasure.

ARC is not here for you to cause trouble at others expense.

Steve B

I have contacted him repeatedly.

I felt this would be the proper place to list any vendors with bad business ethics.Obviously it isn't since you seem to condone these bad ethics and offer support thereof since you haven't mentioned anything about posting vendors exhibiting bad ethical behaviour in their business dealings.

It's pretty much the norm in forums such as this and on sites even dedicated to vendors reports cards.