Orion Field Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I am really in love with the Piper Enforcer, and I really want to build one in 1/72, who makes a kit, or a conversion for this amazing looking plane? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattC Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) Not sure if there is a kit, here's an article about a conversion; http://hsfeatures.com/features04/enforcerpd_1.htm Heritage Aviation (here in the UK) makes a conversion for the Academy kit, which isn't for an enforcer but a "turbo mustang" but might be worth a look as a starting point. Not sure how much more work you would need to do however. http://www.heritageaviationmodelsltd.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=mustang&category_id=20&product_id=144 There's an Enforcer walkaround in the ARC main site, so might be worth checking that out for some info. Edited April 29, 2011 by MattC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) I've got an old 1/72nd Merlin Models Enforcer in the stash - low pressure injected plastic airframe, white metal details - for which "crude" is rather an understatement. CHeers, Andre Edited April 29, 2011 by Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I've got an old 1/72nd Merlin Models Enforcer in the stash - low pressure injected plastic airframe, white metal details - for which "crude" is rather an understatement. CHeers, Andre I have that Merlin POS as well - got it cheap and plan to use it as a basis for converting an old Academy P-51D (also dirt cheap - and who cares if it was one of the rare Packard Merlin V-14-fitted variants when you're going to file off the exhausts anyway?). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 (edited) Scratchbuilding is the way to go. Legato was supposed to release a 1/48 resin kit a few years ago but sadly it never happened. The Mustang Turbo III conversion from heritage aviation cannot be used to build a Enforcer, it's a completely different aircraft (even though the Turbo III became the first Enforcer). Edited April 29, 2011 by tourist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aerobat Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I have been taking the same route (off and on - it's my style) as LanceB with a Merlin Enforcer kit donating parts to the original Academy P-51. Scratch building the Enforcer "bits" may be just as easy, though. A walkaround here at ARC provides some useful information, especially since Gary Ferris took the time to measure the real thing and make notes. ARC walkaround The restored airplane now resides at the USAF Museum in Dayton. Enforcer today Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeffryfontaine Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Scratchbuilding is the way to go.Legato was supposed to release a 1/48 resin kit a few years ago but sadly it never happened. Glad you brought this up. I have been wondering about this for a long time. Ever since the first box art image for the 1/48th scale Legato PA-48 Enforcer first appeared and then seeing nothing come of it. It does make you wonder why they even bothered to do the box art for the damned kit to begin with unless they just like to tease. Certainly would be swell to see a nice conversion or an actual kit of the PA-48 Enforcer in 72nd and 48th scale. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan61 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Hello from Germany... I've read your thread about the Enforcer. I'm looking for pics from cowling / engine room. Is here anyone who have some and can post them if possible.I hope, my English is good enough to understand it. With best regards Ivan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I'm looking for pics from cowling / engine room. Is here anyone who have some and can post them if possible. Open, or closed? I've yet to see any pics of the engine exposed. However there are some good pics (and measurements) here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Dave Lawrence, the chief test pilot for the Enforcer project, gave a great talk at our glider club annual meeting last here. He's now a local resident. I cornered him after the meeting to ask him about the Enforcer. Contrary to popular belief, he told me that there's really virtually nothing left of the original P-51 in the PA-48. Almost the entire airframe, and all ancillaries and systems are completely new. It'd be a *major* conversion. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Contrary to popular belief, he told me that there's really virtually nothing left of the original P-51 in the PA-48. Almost the entire airframe, and all ancillaries and systems are completely new. It'd be a *major* conversion. That is true of a 1/1 airframe, but we aren't talking about building a real Enforcer. We are talking about building a model of an Enforcer, which is significantly simpler as it just has to look like one, not be one. And regardless of how little of a real P-51D was left in a real Piper Enforcer, the Enforcer still looked like a P-51D - stretch the fuselage aft of the cockpit, remove the radiator, add new tailplanes, pylons, prop and exhaust as well as a few other little details and you will have a model that looks like a Piper Enforcer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spruemeister Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I've chased a model of the Enforcer since the mid 80's. I've given up more times than I care to admit. I recall seeing pictures of one in a Nationals gallery. Maybe someone remembers which year that was, or can remember who did it. Wish it were an easier project. Such a nice aeroplane. Rick L. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) That is true of a 1/1 airframe, but we aren't talking about building a real Enforcer. We are talking about building a model of an Enforcer, which is significantly simpler as it just has to look like one, not be one. And regardless of how little of a real P-51D was left in a real Piper Enforcer, the Enforcer still looked like a P-51D - stretch the fuselage aft of the cockpit, remove the radiator, add new tailplanes, pylons, prop and exhaust as well as a few other little details and you will have a model that looks like a Piper Enforcer. Okaaaay... I guess. If you do all that, there's not much P-51 left, is there? Just telling you what the engineering test pilot on the real thing said... Edited April 30, 2011 by Jennings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 If you do all that, there's not much P-51 left, is there? No - just the wing, landing gear, and (stretched) fuselage. Nothing from a Mustang at all... <_< If you were trying to get an F-82 or F-51H out of an P-51D (or a pair of Ds in the case of the F-82) I would agree with you - it would be a "major conversion". All the proportions and shapes are different. But P-51D to Enforcer? Not "major" at all - I did it based off an FSM article (IIRC, maybe it was Scale Modeler?) when I was 13, and the results looked like an Enforcer. Missed a lot of minor details (I know now) but it is the kind of conversion anyone can do. Good example here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan61 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Open, or closed? I've yet to see any pics of the engine exposed. However there are some good pics (and measurements) here. Hi LanceB, I'm looking for pics with open cowling for my "work in progress"...and you are right, it`s not a "major" conversion because the first two Enforcer where converted from F-51D and TF-51D... Ivan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 No - just the wing, landing gear, and (stretched) fuselage. Nothing from a Mustang at all... <_< If you were trying to get an F-82 or F-51H out of an P-51D (or a pair of Ds in the case of the F-82) I would agree with you - it would be a "major conversion". All the proportions and shapes are different. But P-51D to Enforcer? Not "major" at all - I did it based off an FSM article (IIRC, maybe it was Scale Modeler?) when I was 13, and the results looked like an Enforcer. Missed a lot of minor details (I know now) but it is the kind of conversion anyone can do. Good example here. Yes it is a major conversion! The fuselage isn't just stretched, it is shaped differently. As you pointed out you can only use the fuselage, wings and landing gear from the P-51D kit but they will need to be modified. You will need to scratchbuild a lot more than 50% of the kit, in my book that is a major conversion. The Enforcer is as different from a P-51D as a P-51H is. Ivan, the first Enforcer was build from the Cavalier Mustang Turbo III not a regular F-51d. I have never seen pictures with the cowling open. Try a search for Avco-Lycoming YT-55-L-9 Turboprop maybe you'll find something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan61 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 OK,...we never can build a model of the Piper Enforcer Thanks for your info... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yes it is a major conversion! We will have to agree to disagree as to what constitutes a "major" conversion. I for one would never put P-51D -> Piper Enforcer in the "major" conversion category. P2V-7 -> P2V-1, yes. F4U-1 -> F2G sure. Ki-61 -> Ki-60 most certainly, as all the major dimensions were different, although it is still entirely possible to do without carving a new fuselage out of basswood. But a Piper Enforcer, especially in 1/72? That is hardly any more difficult than building a Czech limited-run kit, once you source some usable parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 OK,...we never can build a model of the Piper Enforcer Thanks for your info... Ivan, it is very possible to do. If you are set on building it with all the cowlings off you are adding a whole new level of complexity, but if you just want an Enforcer on your shelf, and you follow the links above, you can make a perfectly acceptable Enforcer from a P-51D. Been there, done it, and will do it again (third time's the charm, I hope?). Trust me, it's just not that difficult - all this talk about "well the real one only had X% commonality with the P-51D" or "The real one was made from a Cavalier Mustang Turbo III, not a P-51D" is just confusing the issue. As I said above, if you were trying to build a 1/1 scale Piper Enforcer all of that becomes important - on a scale model a lot of it is NOT important. Internal structures and systems are one thing, visible shapes and details are another. Don't let yourself lose sight of the forest for the trees. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattC Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The Mustang Turbo III conversion from heritage aviation cannot be used to build a Enforcer My bad, just had a look and realised how different the two are, apologies for the bum steer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan61 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Hi LanceB, I will try it...here my little conversion in 1:24 My link Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Hi Ivan, Looking good so far - do you know about these links? Enforcer walkaround Enforcer plans I think these will be useful to you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan61 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Hi Ivan, Looking good so far - do you know about these links? Enforcer walkaround Enforcer plans I think these will be useful to you. Thanks for links...the plans I have but the walk around I haven't seen before...very cool pics with a lot of details !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tourist Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) all this talk about "well the real one only had X% commonality with the P-51D" or "The real one was made from a Cavalier Mustang Turbo III, not a P-51D" is just confusing the issue. As I said above, if you were trying to build a 1/1 scale Piper Enforcer all of that becomes important - on a scale model a lot of it is NOT important. Internal structures and systems are one thing, visible shapes and details are another. Don't let yourself lose sight of the forest for the trees. Yes, let's not let facts get in the way, they're confusing. You assume that someone like Ivan who wants to display his model with open cowlings isn't interested in accuracy. If all you want is something that kinda looks like an Enforcer then you're right it's probably quick and easy. If you want an accurately shaped Enforcer it will be a lot of work anyway you look at it. Easy or difficult is another story. Edited May 1, 2011 by tourist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ivan61 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) You assume that someone like Ivan who wants to display his model with open cowlings isn't interested in accuracy. I thought this thread is for modelling an Enforcer,...when I compare my conversion with drawings,so I think, it's very accurate. Maybe you forget that I don't convert an original Mustang...oh sorry...a Cavalier !! You write here like a specialist of the Enforcer but you never seen pics with open cowling,the knowledge from 500 posts doesn't mean omniscient! Edited May 1, 2011 by ivan61 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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