Yankee Papa One Three

[LastH21]

On my list of projects is a Uh-34, Yankee Papa One Three, the ship made famous by the Life Magazine cover photo by Burrows. Another photo taken same day while loading shows some of the squadron birds with white IDs and others with black. Any clues on wther YP-13 was black or white?

[outofbattery]

The helo painted to represent it at the Udvar Hazy museum has white markings. I would think the Smithsonian endeavored to get it right.

[11bee]

The helo painted to represent it at the Udvar Hazy museum has white markings. I would think the Smithsonian endeavored to get it right.

Don't always assume that is the case, they have missed more than a couple of things over the years. That being said, I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure that these markings are white.

[KursadA]

My latest UH-34D decal sheet has markings for YP3 (the helo that was lost during the mission); but the stencilling and insignia should be applicable to YP13 as well. Photos of the unit show both white and black numbers in use at the time. I believe YP3 was marked in black, no idea how YP13 was marked though.

Edited August 15, 2013 by KursadA

[Chief Snake]

After the Vietnam war I went to work in the Alexandria Fire Department. We had three shifts, A,B and C. The Captain on C shift at my station was a man named Joe Cherry. He was a gunner on CH-34's of HMM-163 and on this mission photographed by Larry Burrows. The end of this story was not published by Life magazine but you can find it in their archives. YP-3's pilot, although shot through the neck, was not dead. The crewchief remaining in YP-3, was. The pilot of Captain Cherry's helo put it down near YP-3 after the gunfire had lightened up. Captain Cherry recovered YP-3's pilot, who survived, and the deceased crewchief.

Joe found out I was a modeler and asked me to make a model of the ship he was on. At the time the only thing available was a Combat Models 1/32nd scale kit which I did make for him. When going over markings I found out that there indeed was a black and white mix of markings. When the crewchiefs got around to it they painted black over the big white MARINES on the side and the YP numbers on the nose. An unpublished photo of YP-13 shows it with the white MARINES on the side so it suggests that at that time YP-13 probably had the nose in white.

Most photographers did not work alone, Larry Burrows always had someone working with him. That second photographer was in Joe's ship and took pictures of their action. One of his pictures taken after the recovery shows Joe and his crewchief working on the surviving pilot. The photographer later gave this series of photos to Joe who kept them in his personal scrap book. As a gift for building the model Joe gave me a copy of he and crewchief working on the pilot.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Chief Snake

[LastH21]

After the Vietnam war I went to work in the Alexandria Fire Department. We had three shifts, A,B and C. The Captain on C shift at my station was a man named Joe Cherry. He was a gunner on CH-34's of HMM-163 and on this mission photographed by Larry Burrows. The end of this story was not published by Life magazine but you can find it in their archives. YP-3's pilot, although shot through the neck, was not dead. The crewchief remaining in YP-3, was. The pilot of Captain Cherry's helo put it down near YP-3 after the gunfire had lightened up. Captain Cherry recovered YP-3's pilot, who survived, and the deceased crewchief.

Joe found out I was a modeler and asked me to make a model of the ship he was on. At the time the only thing available was a Combat Models 1/32nd scale kit which I did make for him. When going over markings I found out that there indeed was a black and white mix of markings. When the crewchiefs got around to it they painted black over the big white MARINES on the side and the YP numbers on the nose. An unpublished photo of YP-13 shows it with the white MARINES on the side so it suggests that at that time YP-13 probably had the nose in white.

Most photographers did not work alone, Larry Burrows always had someone working with him. That second photographer was in Joe's ship and took pictures of their action. One of his pictures taken after the recovery shows Joe and his crewchief working on the surviving pilot. The photographer later gave this series of photos to Joe who kept them in his personal scrap book. As a gift for building the model Joe gave me a copy of he and crewchief working on the pilot.

Thanks, Chief. Now, any clues as to were I can find white decals to do the YP 13 and HMM 163. Was hoping the afore mentioned Carcal set might be usable with some Mix 'N Match, but no joy. Saw a set of modern RAF/RN letters on ebay. Would those work?

[Tank]

Most things I can think of won't be the right font. Railroad transfers or micro/super scale did a numbers and letter sheet in white I believe. I would get the Carcal set because I am pretty sure the font and spacing is correct ( I don't have the yet myself), make a photocopy of the sheet, lay some tape over the back side, cut out the letters and numbers making a stencil for yourself and airbrush the white numbers and letters on.

[Chief Snake]

I would use the Carcal decals too. Everything you would need to piece together the markings is there except for a white P. The MARINES marking for YP-13 was a the large one.

Chris M

[Finn]

Here are the Life images on Google:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/de8cef6c680f0e60.html

click on the first photo under the Related Images to scroll thru many more, including the ones of the events mentioned above.

Jari

[Chief Snake]

Here are the Life images on Google:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/de8cef6c680f0e60.html

click on the first photo under the Related Images to scroll thru many more, including the ones of the events mentioned above.

Jari

One of the photos in this listed series shows Farley and his gunner doing work on YP-13. It clearly shows the right clamshell door with the letters YP in white.

Chris M

[Finn]

One of the photos in this listed series shows Farley and his gunner doing work on YP-13. It clearly shows the right clamshell door with the letters YP in white.

Chris M

Here is the photo:

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b3f1901bfd92cd2e_large

note the camera is still mounted to the gun. Here is the view from that camera:

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3a70f4753d76bfcf_large

plus note the gun position on the other side.

Jari

[LastH21]

One of the photos in this listed series shows Farley and his gunner doing work on YP-13. It clearly shows the right clamshell door with the letters YP in white.

Chris M

Any idea what YP 13's BuNo was? Also, which landing gear style. Looks to be V type. not bent leg. (Thought bent was older type. When was the switch. And just to verify what I see ..... no cargo door or windows???

[11bee]

And just to verify what I see ..... no cargo door or windows???

Seemed to be SOP for Marine helos.

[Tank]

Seemed to be SOP for Marine helos.

Yes, my understanding is that this was a unit/mission level SOP. When it was the wet season they would install then but otherwise remove because of weight and loss from ground fire.

[Chief Snake]

Any idea what YP 13's BuNo was? Also, which landing gear style. Looks to be V type. not bent leg. (Thought bent was older type. When was the switch. And just to verify what I see ..... no cargo door or windows???

No info on the BuNo but the landing gear is definitely the V strut. The CH-34 on display at NASM is not the actual YP-13 but the markings are supposedly correct for the real YP-13. Perhaps someone at NASM can provide it to you.

Chris M

[Finn]

The BuNo should be in one of these reports:

http://www.recordsofwar.com/vietnam/usmc/HMM-163.htm

click on any of the dates and then the PDF icon to open the file to read about the Squadron's operations.

edit: a quick check finds Lance Cpl. James Farley and Private Wayne Hoilien crewed mostly on 150250 so most likely YP 13 is the BuNo.

edit #2: another check finds YP13 listed as BuNo 150250. Found in After Action Report 1 - 15 March 65 Doc# 120108004 - Msn# 3-348-4 3 Mar 65

Jari

Edited August 19, 2013 by Finn

[LastH21]

If YP 13 was 150250 she met a sad fate. Saw something that she was part of a group of H-34s in a non military bone yard that were scrapped in 2010. I THINK I have the decal sit. resolved. More on that if it pans out. Now ..... What is the correct color for the paint? Kit says FS 34097 Field Green, but it looks to bright. Would 34052 Marine Corp Green be a better bet? And .... last (probably not) but not least, anybody make a V strut conversion set for the landing gear? Or know where I can find a Revell H-34G or HSS-1 kit I can cannibalize? (Worse case I can use the bent strut to make the doner into a French Navy Algerian "Pirate" ship with a 20mm in the door.)

[Chief Snake]

I believe Gallery is also releasing their kit with the V type struts. Might even be the next two releases....

Chris M

[LastH21]

I believe Gallery is also releasing their kit with the V type struts. Might even be the next two releases....

Chris M

Never heard of Gallery. They any good? I have a lead on a 50/60 vintage resin/diecast kit for $7. But struts are iffy metal ones plus I'd ened up tossing the balance. :( RE: BuNos, I found a Marine Helo site. According to them YP 3 was 150568, and YP 13 was 150572.

[KursadA]

Both Gallery kits already have the V-leg (irrespective of what the box art says).

[Chief Snake]

Never heard of Gallery. They any good? I have a lead on a 50/60 vintage resin/diecast kit for $7. But struts are iffy metal ones plus I'd ened up tossing the balance. :(/> RE: BuNos, I found a Marine Helo site. According to them YP 3 was 150568, and YP 13 was 150572.

The pdf's of HMM-163 after action reports clearly refer to YP-13 as 150250. This is for the action in March 1965. YP was a squadron code HMM-163 used in other times and YP-13 could have been assigned to another aircraft at another time.

Chris M

[LastH21]

The pdf's of HMM-163 after action reports clearly refer to YP-13 as 150250. This is for the action in March 1965. YP was a squadron code HMM-163 used in other times and YP-13 could have been assigned to another aircraft at another time.

Chris M

YP 13 at the NASM is 148768 was delivered in April 1961, written off Nov. 1970. Donated to NASM in 74. Not the famous YP 13. Served with 7 front line Squadrons, HMM 163 was not one of them. 150250 was sent to the boneyard in 1970. Last noted at a civilian boneyard in 2010. Possibly the mystery bird. 150572 was w/o in SEA on 31 March 65. 150568 was w/o in SEA 23 July 1968. That would point a finger at 572 being YP 3 and 568 being YP 13. (Info from Heli.com) Source that claims 568/572 as the two a/c in Life is www.popasmoke.com/kia/incidents.php?incident_id=21&conflict.id=24

[KursadA]

YP3 was 150572, period - the BuNo can still be read in Burrows' photo.

http://www.vhpa.org/KIA/K11252.HTM

(*):I gave the BuNo as 150272 on the decal sheet as the result of an unfortunate typo, but a small correction sheet is in the works.

Edited August 24, 2013 by KursadA

[LastH21]

YP3 was 150572, period - the BuNo can still be read in Burrows' photo.

http://www.vhpa.org/KIA/K11252.HTM

The Popasmoke site must have transposed them. It list 572 as YP 13. Seeing 572 is listed as w/o on 31 March and YP 13 made it out of the LZ ...... Can't be the same. Back to the initial mystery, what is YP 13's BuNo? 568 or 250? None of the above?????

[KursadA]

Back to the initial mystery, what is YP 13's BuNo? 568 or 250? None of the above?????

I wish I knew, I really wanted to add YP13 to the sheet. There was no question whatsoever about YP3's BuNo because of the photo and the entry I linked above, but I could not find a conclusive answer for YP13.

Edited August 24, 2013 by KursadA