I know who this guy is, and he GETS IT! again

[CorsairMan]

Suffering from #1? Try Uricalm MAX

Nice. But then again its the direct approach.

Much better than small passive aggressive commentary.

[jinmmydel]

Basically. He said so himself in his on post. The criticism is "wrong." You can read right? He said it not me. Jesus.

[chuck540z3]

I'll quote this from another place where this discussion is taking place:

"In my experience resistance to feedback (particularly in my profession, but also in creative hobbies) comes from:

1 - Primadonna sensbilities. My work is so great and if you're critiquing it you just don't understand.

2 - Insecurity. I depend on extrinsic affirmation and am terrified of anybody finding my work wanting.

3 - Indifference. The pursuit is one which my heart is not in, so I don't really care about improvement.

4 - Terrible feedback. This usually comes from clients."

I think you're suffering from number 1?

I don't think so. Think about it. When a model is presented in a finished form after tons of work, you are basically saying, "Here it is boys, that's the best I can do with my current skill set and I can't change it anymore". When somebody pipes up and says that he doesn't like the salt weathering (has happened), the metal finish is too dirty (has happened) or some other subjective comment (like they don't like pre-shading or too much panel line wash) when the model is finished, all you can think of is, "I don't need this right now". It is what it is and if you don't like something about it, keep your opinions to yourself. THAT is why I encourage and utilize criticism during my WIP threads, when I CAN change something to make it better.

[Don]

What's the hubbub about? If you want to have your model critiqued or you're particularly romantic and amorous about critiquing others work then head on down to the ARC "Critique Corner" sections and have at it. If, on the other hand, you just want to post your completed builds to share with others or post some "well done" type comments then head on down to the ARC "Display Case" sections and fill your boots. If doing neither floats your boat then all the power to you. Seems simple enough. That's how its done here on ARC and frankly I couldn't care less what or how other sites handle critiquing. Its up to them. But hey, whatever gives you enjoyment in this hobby is all that matters. There is no all encompassing right or wrong but merely what's right or wrong for YOU the individual modeler. And honestly, what or how others choose to display their completed or in progress builds and what or how others choose to comment on or receive comments on builds is also up to them.

My two cents.

Happy model building all!

Regards.

[jinmmydel]

I don't think so. Think about it. When a model is presented in a finished form after tons of work, you are basically saying, "Here it is boys, that's the best I can do with my current skill set and I can't change it anymore". When somebody pipes up and says that he doesn't like the salt weathering (has happened), the metal finish is too dirty (has happened) or some other subjective comment (like they don't like pre-shading or too much panel line wash) when the model is finished, all you can think of is, "I don't need this right now". It is what it is and if you don't like something about it, keep your opinions to yourself. THAT is why I encourage and utilize criticism during my WIP threads, when I CAN change something to make it better.

I agree. When the build is complete there is nothing you can do...mostly. I'm in agreement with that. It just sounded a bit like "you're not qualified to critique me" a bit. I was probably a bit harsh. However, as Doogs mentioned, sure there's nothing that can be done about it on that build, but you could very well use it next time around. And, again, as he said...you're going to get all sorts of stuff. Some valid, some not so much, and some completely useless.

It's up to you to decide what you do and don't absorb, but choosing to shut down any and all critique doesn't seem healthy to me. Of course, with the way ARC has split up the completions section you can very easily choose to shut it down using the "Display" forum.

[niart17]

Honestly, the comments I dislike the most when it comes to my own builds are the ones that say "looks good" or "nice job". Not saying the positive message isn't appreciated, but it sometimes feels more like the "I'm going to say something nice because if I'm honest I'd say that paint job doesn't look good" I know that may not always be, but it just sometimes feels like an empty compliment. I also don't like the "that sucks" comments but at least those are usually an honest, although not very helpful, opinion. I had a drawing professor that never said anything negative about ones work. Even when I KNEW I was not creating a good drawing he'd say something like "very nice interpretation" or something like that. I knew that really meant "I don't know what you're trying to do but hey, you're doing it"

Bill

[chuck540z3]

Honestly, the comments I dislike the most when it comes to my own builds are the ones that say "looks good" or "nice job". Not saying the positive message isn't appreciated, but it sometimes feels more like the "I'm going to say something nice because if I'm honest I'd say that paint job doesn't look good" I know that may not always be, but it just sometimes feels like an empty compliment. I also don't like the "that sucks" comments but at least those are usually an honest, although not very helpful, opinion. I had a drawing professor that never said anything negative about ones work. Even when I KNEW I was not creating a good drawing he'd say something like "very nice interpretation" or something like that. I knew that really meant "I don't know what you're trying to do but hey, you're doing it"

Bill

One other way the "attaboy" or "nice job" comments can be measured is by the number of them you get in the Display Case or other forums. To be honest, I NEVER compliment a model if I don't like it or I think it has a lot of flaws. Conversely, if I truly like a model, I will try to say something nice, even if it is redundant to the other comments. The builder sees the number of compliments and from whom they come, which is feedback in itself, even if it isn't critical. My modeling focus is on 1/32 props and jets, so I usually seek only those builds out for evaluation. Sometimes, however, I'll see a thread at another scale with many, many replies, so I check it out. I am never disappointed, because there is always a reason so many felt compelled to respond.

[RKic]

I think Chuck makes a good point too. If I post a build that has several hundred views but only a comment or two, I take that to mean the build wasn't well received. It would be nice to know why.

Edited September 23, 2015 by RKic

[chuck540z3]

Now here's an interesting quandary. This whole thread started after Doog made a critique of maybe too much panel line wash on a beautifully constructed and painted F-4J over at LSP. This critique, as I mentioned earlier and in Doog's blog, is subjective in my opinion and is not necessarily shared by everyone, including me. Checking out the F-4J once more, I have just discovered that the wingtips are flipped up at 25 degrees, as per the Tamiya instructions, rather than 12.5 degrees as they should be modified to. Can you hear the sound of me back pedaling already? Here is what I just posted over there:

"Beautifully constructed and painted F-4J. This model is stunning and your photography of it is top notch as well. Bravo!

Having built this kit a few times, I offer the following as a suggestion for a future build- and in no way is it a critique of this particular F-4J. Tamiya has set the wingtips at about 25 degrees, but on the real deal, the dihedral should be about 12.5 degrees, which is a fairly easy modification.

Again, great job!"

I've posted something similar with 1/32 Academy F/A-18 builds, mentioning that Academy has the rear flaps set downwards at too far of an angle. The intent is to inform the builder and anybody else who might be building this kit.

Edited September 23, 2015 by chuck540z3

[niart17]

One other way the "attaboy" or "nice job" comments can be measured is by the number of them you get in the Display Case or other forums. To be honest, I NEVER compliment a model if I don't like it or I think it has a lot of flaws. Conversely, if I truly like a model, I will try to say something nice, even if it is redundant to the other comments. The builder sees the number of compliments and from whom they come, which is feedback in itself, even if it isn't critical. My modeling focus is on 1/32 props and jets, so I usually seek only those builds out for evaluation. Sometimes, however, I'll see a thread at another scale with many, many replies, so I check it out. I am never disappointed, because there is always a reason so many felt compelled to respond.

You're right. And I actually do the same thing when I see a good build, I'll post stuff like "keep up the good work" and such. It's not really that I don't care for those comments on my builds, but rather when I'm looking for input on something and I just get "looks good" I guess it's just vague. It's a fine line between being nice to be polite and being helpful. It goes back to what I was saying about my drawing art prof. His input really didn't help me when I felt that was his job to help. Another prof was great by saying stuff like "this is working here but you need to re-look at what you have going on over here..." But then again, take for example Spaceman's shuttle launch tower build. It's sooo incredible that after a while one is just left speechless. It's hard to comment with anything other than sheer awe. So often I just open the thread. look at it, (cry to myself) and then move on until I feel I can offer helpful input.

Bill

[chuck540z3]

But then again, take for example Spaceman's shuttle launch tower build. It's sooo incredible that after a while one is just left speechless. It's hard to comment with anything other than sheer awe. So often I just open the thread. look at it, (cry to myself) and then move on until I feel I can offer helpful input.

Bill

You can't throw that out there without a link! This I need to see if you have it handy.

[jinmmydel]

Atta boys are completely useless to me honestly. Funny thing, but I don't need validation from anyone with this hobby. I post builds to share work and hoping that feedback will come. I've enjoyed some success with having my work recognized and yes it's great but I don't need it. What I do need is to be pushed to be better. I do not need kit flaws pointed out to my. That's not critique. That's saying "hey look what I know."

The idea that the number or replies you get and who they are from is some sort of validation really truly makes me sad for anyone that feels that way.

I know my work is flawed and I'm never entirely happy with anything but validation? No. Never. In the end I'm doing me and I'm happy and what I'm not happy with I'll move on and try to fix.

But hey, we are living in a culture where everyone is special, everyone gets a pat ok the back and a trophy no matter the cut if their jib. So it's no surprise to me that modelers too are just fishing for validation.

Edited September 23, 2015 by jinmmydel

[niart17]

You can't throw that out there without a link! This I need to see if you have it handy.

oh yeah, sorry. Here you go, feast your eyes on this work. It's a very long project that borderlines on madness, sheer awesome madness. It's starts out like "oh what a clever way to augment a paper model" and then it goes WAAAAAY beyond just clever...well you'll see.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=246711

Bill

[niart17]

BTW, it is something like 59 pages so here is a good page to indicate overall his great progress.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=246711&st=1080

Bill

[chuck540z3]

BTW, it is something like 59 pages so here is a good page to indicate overall his great progress.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=246711&st=1080

Bill

Thank you Bill. This guy is crazy good!

Atta boys are completely useless to me honestly. Funny thing, but I don't need validation from anyone with this hobby. I post builds to share work and hoping that feedback will come. I've enjoyed some success with having my work recognized and yes it's great but I don't need it. What I do need is to be pushed to be better. I do not need kit flaws pointed out to my. That's not critique. That's saying "hey look what I know."

OK Jimmy, let's test some of those thoughts. I notice that you have two jet aircraft in the Display Case forum. The 1/32 AV-8B, which is apparently in the July issue of Model Aircraft magazine and the Academy 1/48 F-4D, which is coming in the November issue of the same magazine. I know this because you tell us. Why? I mention my builds are in FSM magazine all the time because I'm proud of it and I'm patting myself on the back a bit. Why do you mention it? I think you are doing the very same thing and "you need it".

Since I know quite a bit about F-4's and I can't critique your F-4D model in the Display Case forum because that is not allowed, I offer the following comments on this build here "to push you to be better".

1) Why only a few pics from 2 feet away with no close-ups? It looks like it's probably a very nicely assembled model, but I really can't tell from the pics. As a professional photographer who can take any pic you want, are you hiding something?

2) A Vietnam war era "Mig Killer" would be much more weathered than that. You may have weathered the jet a bit and added a few chip marks here and there, but I can't really tell from the pics. What I can tell is that the wing fuel tanks, which are almost always filthy and chipped, look like they just came out of the paint booth.

3) What's with the intake covers? I see that you have a few RBF flags on the tail and seats, but whenever I see an F-4 model with intake covers, it tells me that either the insides of the intakes are crappy or the modeler was too lazy to finish them off smoothly. Which one is it?

There, was that helpful or am I just being an a$$hole? Hopefully you don't have "Primadonna sensbilities. My work is so great and if you're critiquing it you just don't understand".

Edited September 24, 2015 by chuck540z3

[DoogsATX]

One other way the "attaboy" or "nice job" comments can be measured is by the number of them you get in the Display Case or other forums. To be honest, I NEVER compliment a model if I don't like it or I think it has a lot of flaws. Conversely, if I truly like a model, I will try to say something nice, even if it is redundant to the other comments. The builder sees the number of compliments and from whom they come, which is feedback in itself, even if it isn't critical. My modeling focus is on 1/32 props and jets, so I usually seek only those builds out for evaluation. Sometimes, however, I'll see a thread at another scale with many, many replies, so I check it out. I am never disappointed, because there is always a reason so many felt compelled to respond.

That's...not exactly sound metrics though!

I mean...I've noticed that likes and comments and so on can swing pretty wildly based on the subject I'm working on. Corsair? Comments through the roof. F-4? Same. AH-1Z Viper, or a Canadian Leopard C2? Much more muted response in terms of volume. I think it's partly the "franchise problem" that Hollywood has...the well-known stuff attracts more interest. Unlikely choices and so on just don't get as much attention.

[jinmmydel]

Thank you Bill. This guy is crazy good!

OK Jimmy, let's test some of those thoughts. I notice that you have two jet aircraft in the Display Case forum. The 1/32 AV-8B, which is apparently in the July issue of Model Aircraft magazine and the Academy 1/48 F-4D, which is coming in the November issue of the same magazine. I know this because you tell us. Why? I mention my builds are in FSM magazine all the time because I'm proud of it and I'm patting myself on the back a bit. Why do you mention it? I think you are doing the very same thing and "you need it".

Since I know quite a bit about F-4's and I can't critique your F-4D model in the Display Case forum because that is not allowed, I offer the following comments on this build here "to push you to be better".

1) Why only a few pics from 2 feet away with no close-ups? It looks like it's probably a very nicely assembled model, but I really can't tell from the pics. As a professional photographer who can take any pic you want, are you hiding something?

2) A Vietnam war era "Mig Killer" would be much more weathered than that. You may have weathered the jet a bit and added a few chip marks here and there, but I can't really tell from the pics. What I can tell is that the wing fuel tanks, which are almost always filthy and chipped, look like they just came out of the paint booth.

3) What's with the intake covers? I see that you have a few RBF flags on the tail and seats, but whenever I see an F-4 model with intake covers, it tells me that either the insides of the intakes are crappy or the modeler was too lazy to finish them off smoothly. Which one is it?

There, was that helpful or am I just being an a$$hole? Hopefully you don't have "Primadonna sensbilities. My work is so great and if you're critiquing it you just don't understand".

Yes I am proud. And still very much humbled to have been contributing to MA for the past few months. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. Just like I don't think there is anything wrong with you or anyone else do it.

Please do understand that I am a regular contributor to the magazine too. I've had builds in every issue since May and will for the foreseeable future as I'm doing a recurring feature for Gunze. I'm very much invested and interested in the growth of the magazine. You also may have noticed that I have a fairly newly launched blog that I'm equally interested in growing.

So look to the side there and you'll see I've been registered here a while now, but have only begun posting recently. Unashamedly, I admit I post here to promote Model Aircraft and myself...it's just more eyes that may see it. I've tried numerous times to "fit in" and become regular here, but the fact is the atmosphere is generally off putting.

1) Pictures are limited because when I have a build that's going to be published it's a courtesy to the publisher not plaster all the pics they may want to use on forums. What's the point of buying the magazine if you're interested in the build. I also don't really care much for macro pics. It just doesn't suit my taste. The ones I do do are reserved for the magazine. Plus, I have and and fairly proficient with Photoshop. If there were flaws I could fix them anyway. Sure, it's possible I'm hiding something, but I'm not. Truly.

2) You're absolutely right. I chickened out on the weathering with that one for a few reasons. Basically the build was very important to me and I didn't want to ruin it. I wrote on this today actually:

http://jimsmodels.com/2015/09/23/fear-and-complacency/

That's a critique I would have welcomed. Perhaps I should have posted in the other section. I give you that. And I'll also tell you that I have no shame admitting that fear and that it still has a grip on me sometimes.

With the builds I'm currently doing for MA I have about 1 month to build, photograph, and write an article. With deadlines like that it's hard to do as much in the weathering I'd like because of the time involved. (Though the F-4 was not originally for the mag. It was picked up. I had all the time in the world on it, but like I say..I dropped the ball.

3) Both. The intakes aren't even there. I didn't put them in. Two reasons. First, the Academy intakes are wanting, and a pain in the butt to get smoothed, so I didn't bother with it. Second, I had a very distinct "on the tarmac" look I wanted based on a picture I saw as a kid that put the vision of this build into my head. FOD covers complete that look with the added bonus of saving me work. I have no shame admitting that either.

I'll tell you I follow your builds a lot closer than you may realize. Generally I don't comment because it woud just be "attaboys." I can't really help you all that much. I very much am impressed by your dedication. But I'll tell you I'd burn out if I were you. I can't commit to a build like that. I wish I could to some degree. But exacting accuracy isn't an issue for me. I'm a paint and weather guy and the build process itself bores me. Yes, I want clean seams and perfect construction, but I don't like to add a lot of work for myself. That's why I'm an aftermarket hound. If I can't buy it to shove in sometimes the detail goes missing.

(About the time you were running the P-51 kit I bought it and built it myself and I referred to your thread a lot. I tried to wire up the gear bay myself...pretty much trying to copy you and it drove me mad. I realized I was more content with some basic work and moving on than I would be going all out like that. I just focus my concentration elsewhere.

I do agree with you completely that good macro photos are nice for a WIP. I guess it's about what you need to get out of, or what you want to share with a WIP though. It's a good bit of work, and sometimes I'll admit I get lazy there. Following your lead though I've tried to get better with those shots like in the A-6 build thread I tried to run here.

I guess your comments annoyed me a bit with the whole "I don't comment on what I don't like" stuff. Truly and honestly, I don't need affirmation. What I want is to grow. I'm very much open to critique, but when all the comments are attaboys or telling me how wrong the kit is it becomes tiresome. I do seem to remember you mulling over ceasing your WIPs at least once before because of the lack of engagement. Your WIPs are great and detailed, but why put the time into that if all your hearing is "good job, bro?" I mean maybe you get more, but it's rare that I do...so yeah...I get lazy with the WIPs. I've got a 3 and 4 year old and a stressful as hell job (I had a 7 year old patient die today). Sometimes life just drains it out of me. That all being said, I do want to do better WIPs. I'm trying.

Thanks for the feedback on the Phantom too.

[chuck540z3]

Yes I am proud. And still very much humbled to have been contributing to MA for the past few months. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. Just like I don't think there is anything wrong with you or anyone else do it.

Please do understand that I am a regular contributor to the magazine too. I've had builds in every issue since May and will for the foreseeable future as I'm doing a recurring feature for Gunze. I'm very much invested and interested in the growth of the magazine. You also may have noticed that I have a fairly newly launched blog that I'm equally interested in growing.

So look to the side there and you'll see I've been registered here a while now, but have only begun posting recently. Unashamedly, I admit I post here to promote Model Aircraft and myself...it's just more eyes that may see it. I've tried numerous times to "fit in" and become regular here, but the fact is the atmosphere is generally off putting.

1) Pictures are limited because when I have a build that's going to be published it's a courtesy to the publisher not plaster all the pics they may want to use on forums. What's the point of buying the magazine if you're interested in the build. I also don't really care much for macro pics. It just doesn't suit my taste. The ones I do do are reserved for the magazine. Plus, I have and and fairly proficient with Photoshop. If there were flaws I could fix them anyway. Sure, it's possible I'm hiding something, but I'm not. Truly.

2) You're absolutely right. I chickened out on the weathering with that one for a few reasons. Basically the build was very important to me and I didn't want to ruin it. I wrote on this today actually:

http://jimsmodels.com/2015/09/23/fear-and-complacency/

That's a critique I would have welcomed. Perhaps I should have posted in the other section. I give you that. And I'll also tell you that I have no shame admitting that fear and that it still has a grip on me sometimes.

With the builds I'm currently doing for MA I have about 1 month to build, photograph, and write an article. With deadlines like that it's hard to do as much in the weathering I'd like because of the time involved. (Though the F-4 was not originally for the mag. It was picked up. I had all the time in the world on it, but like I say..I dropped the ball.

3) Both. The intakes aren't even there. I didn't put them in. Two reasons. First, the Academy intakes are wanting, and a pain in the butt to get smoothed, so I didn't bother with it. Second, I had a very distinct "on the tarmac" look I wanted based on a picture I saw as a kid that put the vision of this build into my head. FOD covers complete that look with the added bonus of saving me work. I have no shame admitting that either.

I'll tell you I follow your builds a lot closer than you may realize. Generally I don't comment because it woud just be "attaboys." I can't really help you all that much. I very much am impressed by your dedication. But I'll tell you I'd burn out if I were you. I can't commit to a build like that. I wish I could to some degree. But exacting accuracy isn't an issue for me. I'm a paint and weather guy and the build process itself bores me. Yes, I want clean seams and perfect construction, but I don't like to add a lot of work for myself. That's why I'm an aftermarket hound. If I can't buy it to shove in sometimes the detail goes missing.

(About the time you were running the P-51 kit I bought it and built it myself and I referred to your thread a lot. I tried to wire up the gear bay myself...pretty much trying to copy you and it drove me mad. I realized I was more content with some basic work and moving on than I would be going all out like that. I just focus my concentration elsewhere.

I do agree with you completely that good macro photos are nice for a WIP. I guess it's about what you need to get out of, or what you want to share with a WIP though. It's a good bit of work, and sometimes I'll admit I get lazy there. Following your lead though I've tried to get better with those shots like in the A-6 build thread I tried to run here.

I guess your comments annoyed me a bit with the whole "I don't comment on what I don't like" stuff. Truly and honestly, I don't need affirmation. What I want is to grow. I'm very much open to critique, but when all the comments are attaboys or telling me how wrong the kit is it becomes tiresome. I do seem to remember you mulling over ceasing your WIPs at least once before because of the lack of engagement. Your WIPs are great and detailed, but why put the time into that if all your hearing is "good job, bro?" I mean maybe you get more, but it's rare that I do...so yeah...I get lazy with the WIPs. I've got a 3 and 4 year old and a stressful as hell job (I had a 7 year old patient die today). Sometimes life just drains it out of me. That all being said, I do want to do better WIPs. I'm trying.

Thanks for the feedback on the Phantom too.

Damn! You were supposed to call me an A$$hole so that I could show you that not all critiques are wanted or appreciated by the builder. Mine were, on purpose, a bit harsher than I would normally post, but I was trying to push some buttons to prove a point.

Yes my WIP threads are involved and time consuming and I do try to sweat the little details that most modelers don't care about. To be honest, I have no idea where I find the patience, because I am probably one of the most impatient guys in the world in my "real life"- just ask my wife! I want things done NOW and I can't stand indecision or procrastination. For some reason when I model though, that all goes out the window and I find some sort of peace in playing with little plastic parts. I guess that's why I do it.

Now for some real constructive tips that you may or may not want to pursue, which might also explain why I do what I do.

1) WIP photography. To me, there is nothing more boring or a waste of time when reading a WIP thread than seeing poor photographs. The model could be the best in the world, but if the pics are crappy (or too far away), who would know? I try to take the best pics I can and I'm still learning to take better ones every year. I like to focus on close-ups, because that is where you will see all the flaws (or lack of them), which is what I like to see in other WIP builds. I can't count the number of times I have completed a build stage, taken close-up pics to post, then found that I had many flaws to fix before I could. The model turns out better than it normally would and I grow as a modeler for doing so. With your photographic skills, this should be much easier than for many modelers who think their iphone camera is good enough.

2) "Fitting In". Like any community, ARC (or LSP) is a gathering of like-minded, typically males who all share an interest in modeling with a focus on aircraft. That's why you and I are here. There are some guys here who I really like and follow, while some others I go out of my way to avoid. I think that's normal, so just "hang out" with those who interest you and don't sweat the goof balls.

3) Feedback. I recall the time you mentioned when I was getting pissy because I had just posted what I thought was a very important and, to me, interesting build step and I had absolutely no feedback after over 1,000 thread views. 1,000 modelers clicked on my build and nobody said a word. I was a bit crushed as tumble weeds blew by in the wind, until somebody (probably several people) pointed out that 1,000 clicks on my thread meant that it must have been interesting or they wouldn't have bothered. That to me, is now all the feedback I need most of the time now, but like any human, I still like the odd attaboy to keep me going.

4) Make each model several models. With your MA gig, this isn't likely to be possible, but one of the reasons I spend so much time on my models is that I make every build step a mini-model. I might spend 6 weeks on just the cockpit or P-51 wheel well you described, but when I'm done, I think of it as a model completed, rather than a long PITA. Most of my local modeling buddies make 5-6 great models per year and while the skill level is terrific and they often win their categories at model contests, I just can't do that because the detail is often lacking and I find them a bit boring. That's just me, I know, but if you made a highly detailed model on the side while creating the others for MA magazine, you just might really like it.

That's about all I can think of as it's getting late, but I will close with a thank you for your candor.

Cheers,

Chuck

Edited September 24, 2015 by chuck540z3

[11bee]

Honestly, the comments I dislike the most when it comes to my own builds are the ones that say "looks good" or "nice job". Not saying the positive message isn't appreciated, but it sometimes feels more like the "I'm going to say something nice because if I'm honest I'd say that paint job doesn't look good"

Bill

I tend to agree. It's nice when you get stuff like that but after a bit, it just becomes the equivalent of "golf-clapping". I know others disagree, I recall someone complaining that he wasn't getting enough responses to one of his builds, even though the overwhelming majority of comments were "wow nice job", "looking good!", etc. Short of stroking one's ego, what does that really add? If one is worried that people aren't interested in their work and that matters to them (I can't imagine why but to each their own), just check out the number of views. If folks aren't interested, they will look once and never come back.

I'd much rather get advise, suggestions, questions (on the build or on the subject itself), just keeps things more interesting.

[jinmmydel]

No no. I'm not going to call you anything. I honestly do want feedback, and I didn't think your comments on the Phantom were harsh at all. I know there is plenty of room for growth with my work, and I don't see any other way to get there than with the help of peers.

1. WIP Photography : I think you're right on point. A little over a year ago my WIP photos were awful at best. Most came from a cell phone or point and shoot which wasn't much better. Since making the commitment to do better WIPs and photos I've gotten better because good photos absolutely point out things that need work. I absolutely do need to be better about it myself. I really need to stop telling myself that WIPs aren't getting the attention I feel they deserve and in turn getting lazy with updating and documenting them.

2. Fitting it Again, you're on point. I'm kind of an abrasive person...I can admit that. So when the back and forth arguments erupt over things like accuracy or stuff like that instead of ignoring it an move in, I can be drawn into it, but I'm getting better at keeping my temper.

3. Feedback See you're hitting on the point of the original point Doogs was making I think. While the direct point was being made about completed builds not getting critiqued enough, I think it carries over to WIPs. On one hand I find I get a little disheartened when a WIP has 1 comment for every 100 views, but at the same time when the comments are just "good job" it's frustrating. I can and could then easily relate to your feelings.

4. Make each model several models: I'm very much doing this. The nature of what I'm currently committed to with MA means those builds can't be too complicated because: deadlines. That doesn't mean my standards are really any lower. I want them to be as perfect as possible for the mostly OOB builds they are. After all my name is on them, and that means something to me.

I do have my own personal build going at the same time that isn't beholden to deadlines and other limitations. Right now it's the trumpeter 1/32 A-6. I very much want to improve it and make it better. I'm not much of a scratchbuilder though. My greatest weakness for sure, and I struggle with motivating myself. Right now I'm looking at the wheel wells that could use some extra love, but I'm really struggling with that. Hopefully I get the motivation I need, and can overcome the fear of trying it. Honestly, fear is my biggest hurdle at the moment.

[DoogsATX]

Damn! You were supposed to call me an A$$hole so that I could show you that not all critiques are wanted or appreciated by the builder. Mine were, on purpose, a bit harsher than I would normally post, but I was trying to push some buttons to prove a point.

Yes my WIP threads are involved and time consuming and I do try to sweat the little details that most modelers don't care about. To be honest, I have no idea where I find the patience, because I am probably one of the most impatient guys in the world in my "real life"- just ask my wife! I want things done NOW and I can't stand indecision or procrastination. For some reason when I model though, that all goes out the window and I find some sort of peace in playing with little plastic parts. I guess that's why I do it.

Now for some real constructive tips that you may or may not want to pursue, which might also explain why I do what I do.

1) WIP photography. To me, there is nothing more boring or a waste of time when reading a WIP thread than seeing poor photographs. The model could be the best in the world, but if the pics are crappy (or too far away), who would know? I try to take the best pics I can and I'm still learning to take better ones every year. I like to focus on close-ups, because that is where you will see all the flaws (or lack of them), which is what I like to see in other WIP builds. I can't count the number of times I have completed a build stage, taken close-up pics to post, then found that I had many flaws to fix before I could. The model turns out better than it normally would and I grow as a modeler for doing so. With your photographic skills, this should be much easier than for many modelers who think their iphone camera is good enough.

Joining in here...Chuck, I hear you on poor photos on WIP threads. I'm not really active here because one can only really devote to so many places at one time, *but* bothering to grab decent pictures during various WIP phases is something I for sure struggle with. I've got a light table, good camera, know how to take good shots etc, but when it's a relatively minor update it's so much easier just to pull out the phone and snap a few decent-not-great shots.

However...a quick tip if you want it regarding macro work. If you have a computer monitor (or any screen really) that supports HDMI, you can connect your camera to it for an instant, real-time big screen magnifier. I've got an old Sony camcorder that I don't really use to shoot with very much, but it's got excellent optics on the zoom and frequently acts as that same flaw-catcher you mention with close-up shots.

[chuck540z3]

Right now I'm looking at the wheel wells that could use some extra love, but I'm really struggling with that. Hopefully I get the motivation I need, and can overcome the fear of trying it. Honestly, fear is my biggest hurdle at the moment.

Funny you mention that, because right now I'm backing away from a lot of detail in the wheel wells if they are hard to see inside. On my P-51D build, the wheel wells are large and easy to see inside, so I'd do all that work again if I built another one. On my current P-38 build, however, you'd be lucky to see anything with the model flipped on its back using a flashlight, so I sort of did a minimal job of detailing and I don't regret it. I have several other models where I slaved for many hours to get the wheel wells looking good, but I have yet to look at them again in years. Waste of time now in my books.

BTW, I found your A-6 build and offered a couple of small suggestions. This one is going to look terrific when finished.

[chuck540z3]

Joining in here...Chuck, I hear you on poor photos on WIP threads. I'm not really active here because one can only really devote to so many places at one time, *but* bothering to grab decent pictures during various WIP phases is something I for sure struggle with. I've got a light table, good camera, know how to take good shots etc, but when it's a relatively minor update it's so much easier just to pull out the phone and snap a few decent-not-great shots.

Thanks Doog. After years of struggling with taking pictures and having all sorts of distracting clutter in my pics, I now have a small dedicated photo booth right next to my work bench. When I finish a step and want to take a pic, I just slide the model over and fire away.....

[jinmmydel]

Funny you mention that, because right now I'm backing away from a lot of detail in the wheel wells if they are hard to see inside. On my P-51D build, the wheel wells are large and easy to see inside, so I'd do all that work again if I built another one. On my current P-38 build, however, you'd be lucky to see anything with the model flipped on its back using a flashlight, so I sort of did a minimal job of detailing and I don't regret it. I have several other models where I slaved for many hours to get the wheel wells looking good, but I have yet to look at them again in years. Waste of time now in my books.

BTW, I found your A-6 build and offered a couple of small suggestions. This one is going to look terrific when finished.

Generally that's my approach. Can't be really seen? Screw it. I can certainly see where that would be the philosophy with the P-38.

The Intruder...the wheel well is pretty prominent.

You can help me a bit. I want to put an order in at UMM for lead wire. I just have no idea what sizes would work best in 1/32...suggestions?

[DoogsATX]

Yeah I've got a dedicated table that gives great, very clean shots. It's more just the effort involved. I shoot in RAW and process through Lightroom and so it takes an extra bit of motivation to get me over there, especially if the update is something like "glued wings on and masked the canopy". I should though, because DSLR + lighting = far better images.