twong Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I am looking to do either an F-4C or D in 1/48 shown in the scans below from the old Monogram decal sheet. Would it be possible to load four AIM-4D Falcons on the inboard pylons and some BLU-27's on outboard MER's for either of the markings shown? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
onescale Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 As far as I know the F-4C was never able to fire the AIM-4 Falcon (in Vietnam)!? On the F-4D it looks quite right! If I remember correctly I read that F-4D 66-7463 was armed with AIM-4's and AIM-7's for Steve Ritchies and Chuck DeBellevues first MiG-kill on May 10, 1972. O.K., they used the Sparrow for the kill but the Falcon was present..... At that occasion they carried no air to ground ordnance. But theoretically a mix of BLU's and AIM-4's is possible! I'm sure there is someone with more knowledge who can also help! Best regards, Jens Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Of course you could always have the AIM-4Ds on the shoulder stations and have TERS with BLUs underneath. This one has MK-82s with an ECM pod on the other side and most likely more Mk-82s on the c/l: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks everyone! In the first scan I posted, it is of Olds' F-4C. If the the AIM-4 wasn't cleared to be carried on F-4C's, did Olds fly the F-4D carrying the AIM-4 when he was talking about the AIM-4 in the account below? What aircraft was he flying when he was talking about firing seven or eight and not one guided? By the beginning of June, we all hated the new AIM-4 Falcon missiles. I loathed the damned useless things. I wanted my Sidewinders back. In two missions I had fired seven or eight of the bloody things and not one guided. They were worse than I had anticipated. Sometimes they refused to launch; sometimes they just cruised off into the blue without guiding. In the thick of an engagement with my head twisting and turning, trying to keep track of friend and foe, I'd forget which of the four I had (already) selected and couldn't tell which of the remaining was perking and which head was already expiring on its launch rail. Twice upon returning to base I had the tech rep go over the switchology and firing sequences. We never discovered I was doing anything wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Yes, he was talking about the F-4D. see his line "I wanted my Sidewinders back" He eventually got his Sidewinders back, when they added that capability onto the F-4D, letting him run the D as he had been used to doing on the C. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks! So no on the F-4C loaded with the AIM-4D's. Theoretically, the F-4D flown by Steve Ritchie shown in the second scan in my OP could be loaded with four AIM-4D's and BLU-27's on the outboard pylons? Could I have the rear wells loaded with Sparrows and the front ones with one ALQ-87 and one ALQ-101 ECM pods if loaded with AIM-4D's and BLU-27's? I know it is my model and can load it the way I want but I want somewhat of a legit load. There is always the one Jari posted or this one below but I only have decals for the ones posted in the scans in my original post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Sorry Terrence, I was a Navair Puke,,,,,,,,you need a USAF type of guy to talk about "can carry in front of ______", "load limit per pylon and gross total weapons usable load", and "load balance of aircraft" In theory, if the aircraft had the wires and the stores had the right lugs,,,,,as long as you account for those things, add some gas bags, and don't overload the airframe, it should be possible. The one thing I am fairly sure of is that you don't want to put 3 BLU-1 or -27 on a TER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks! I was looking to do something similar in this photo but instead of the TER's inboard with the BLU's, I wanted to use the AIM-4's and keep the MER's outboard with the BLU's using one of the decal options in my original post above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 They loaded the a/c daily with whatever the load order called for and they would have run out of film if they took photos of each load. So just because there is no photo of the particular a/c you have in mind doing with a particular load doesn't mean that it didn't carry the BLU and AIM-4Ds at one time or another. As per the other thread i posted showing an F-4 with both LGBs and napalm, who would have though they would do that but the video shows that they did. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That last build should be completely possible. Just put two of those BLU's out there on MER, keep the gas bag, and take the BLU and TER off the Inner Wing, and load Falcons on there instead, with their unique rails. (three different rails for the four pylon locations) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Here is another example of just two AIM-4Ds, along with 2 ALQ-101 ECM pods, 1 AIM-7 left in the fwd well and the tanks blown off after a MiG killing mission: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks again! Greatly appreciated! I will go ahead with the load I asked about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my favs are F`s Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 This plane plane is splendid with and without any ordnance at all :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 10/31/2016 at 2:57 PM, Finn said: Here is another example of just two AIM-4Ds, along with 2 ALQ-101 ECM pods, 1 AIM-7 left in the fwd well and the tanks blown off after a MiG killing mission: Jari 65-0784 is an interesting jet. Lodge & Locher scored three kills in it of Feb 21, May 8 and May 10 1972. It was shot down after the kill on 10 May with the loss of Lodge. Locher recovered something like a month later. The prevalent theory is that Lodge chose to 'ride it in' rather than punch out as he knew too much about the Combat Tree IFF interrogator system and was concerned that he would spill the beans about the closely held secret if tortured. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thanks for the info. More F-4D Vietnam questions. Does anyone know if decals are available for this particular F-4D? Maybe a source to cobble some together? I can start with the Monogram 1/48 F-4C FP tail codes but the white 722 might be hard to come by. Can anyone make out the smaller black numbers under the AF in front of the 722? Link to the original file. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:F-4D_497th_TFS_with_BOLT-117s_1971.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 At the 4:50 mark you can see BOLT-117s on a trailer: Here is another F-4D with an AIM-4D, Mk-82s on c/l MER and a pair of LAU-3 rocket pods on the other side: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thanks Jari! That's some great info. The BOLT-117's are a very interesting weapons load. More options to choose from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 IIRC correctly, the AIM-4 was designed for use by interceptors and their targets were expected to be Tu-16s or Tu-95s. They weren't expected to be used against more maneuverable fighters. Then in Southeast Asia there was the heat and humidity issues inherent in that area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 A scale drawing of the BOLT-117 can be found here: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.ca/2016/10/missile-and-weapon-drawings124th-scale.html probably not too hard to scratchbuild. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thanks Jari, looks like I can work from those drawings. Now to decide if I want to do an F-4C with napes or an F-4D with the BOLT-117's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Here is a walk around of a BOLT-117: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/bill_spidle2/gbu-1/ a bit better detail than the drawing. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Thank again Jari! The fins look simple enough but the extended part where the fins attach looks more complex. I still need to find the appropriate decals for the F-4D that carried those BOLT-117's. That F-4D also has the APS-107 antennas just aft of the radome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted November 3, 2016 Author Share Posted November 3, 2016 Started work on the first of four BOLT-117's in 1/48. The tape is holding on the seeker head because I ran out of CA glue. The M-117 is from the Hasegawa weapons set and the seeker head is from an old resin GBU-16. I will make the fins from sheet plastic but need to figure out the tail cone section that the fins attach to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 You can try the tail section of a Mk-83 or Mk-84. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twong Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Further progress on the BOLT-117. The laser illumination detector head and rear most fins are from the 1/48 Hasegawa weapons set D GBU-10. The center section is from the Monogram 1/48 M-117 750lb bomb. The electrical conduit is plastic strip and the large fins are scratch built from sheet plastic. Also did the APS-107 antennas. Scratch built from plastic sheet and strips, cut and sanded to shape. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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