H. 34 Choctaw.

[Rotorman]

[Rotorman]

IMG_7471.dng

[HeavyArty]

Looks pretty good.  Your fuel cans are wrong for US military though.  They only used the "Blitz" can in early WWII.  We quickly changed to our own design that was used from mid-WWII up until the late '80s - early '90s when they were replaced with plastic cans. 

 

Standard US Military fuel can.

 

The whole can would not be red either.  If anything, they could have a red top to denote MOGAS (MOtor GAS) as opposed to a yellow top for diesel, but that was not really done until the '70s and '80s when the US military was switching to all diesel-powered equipment and MOGAS was becoming the lesser-used fuel.

 

 

They could also have MOGAS stenciled on them.

 

 

Or DIESEL stenciled on for a can holding diesel fuel.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by HeavyArty

[Rotorman]

1 hour ago, HeavyArty said:

Looks pretty good.  Your fuel cans are wrong for US military though.  They only used the "Blitz" can in early WWII.  We quickly changed to our own design that was used from mid-WWII up until the late '80s - early '90s when they were replaced with plastic cans. 

 

Standard US Military fuel can.

 

The whole can would not be red either.  If anything, they could have a red top to denote MOGAS (MOtor GAS) as opposed to a yellow top for diesel, but that was not really done until the '70s and '80s when the US military was switching to all diesel-powered equipment and MOGAS was becoming the lesser-used fuel.

 

 

They could also have MOGAS stenciled on them.

 

 

Or DIESEL stenciled on for a can holding diesel fuel.

 

 

So the difference is the fuel cap? Cause I don't really see much of difference.  I will put decals on once I get them.  The red  cans where painted that color to offset the the drab color.....creative licensing.. 

Seone should make Some accurate fuel cans past WW2 time period in CAD. Thanks for the heads up, I learn something today.

[HeavyArty]

The whole can is different.  The Blitz can is two piece with a large seam all the way around and a different shaped reinforcing ribs on the front.  The US cans are welded without a seam at all, and the caps are different.

Edited December 19, 2023 by HeavyArty

[JohnEB]

I agree 100% with HeavyArty.

The cans are very much different and there are a lot of armor model experts which will notice.

 

I wasn't too familiar with the subject until I restored a M38A1 Jeep. I swear there are people out there that just collect and specialize in fuel cans from different armies.

[USMCVet]

I know what I hate about this hobby: the "rivet counters", the "flashlight seam finders", and the discourteous indifferent craftsmen who spend their lives looking for faults in another guy's model. 

 

Rotorman is a superb craftsman and I for one enjoy seeing his work, step by step. If I do spot something that I think that he may have done differently than I thought I would do (if I had the talent) I would privately message him.

 

So - either send him a couple of correct mid-60s gas cans because you would like to help him - or he can just sand the seam off and modify that cap, right?

[kike]

1 hour ago, USMCVet said:

I know what I hate about this hobby: the "rivet counters", the "flashlight seam finders", and the discourteous indifferent craftsmen who spend their lives looking for faults in another guy's model. 

 

Rotorman is a superb craftsman and I for one enjoy seeing his work, step by step. If I do spot something that I think that he may have done differently than I thought I would do (if I had the talent) I would privately message him.

 

So - either send him a couple of correct mid-60s gas cans because you would like to help him - or he can just sand the seam off and modify that cap, right?

Been there done that!!   after a while you'll get to understand the dynamics between these two guys! at the end of the day Oliver is gonna do what he wants and Gino is gonna keep pointing out flaws for "the sake of the hobby" too much knowledge on one side, too many skills on the other!! let's just keep enjoying both, cause you get to learn from both of them, not always the nicest way but you get the idea,,,

[USMCVet]

Yeah, but - our hobby has almost vanished among the last couple of generations and it is both an art and history. It used to be and should still be a courteous one, respecting the efforts of all of us. Acting like trash will finish our hobby for good.

[HeavyArty]

Where was I discourteous? I stated it looks good, and it does.  I simply pointed out that the cans are wrong (which they are), and showed the correct ones.  Coddling modelers and telling them it just looks great even if flawed doesn't advance the hobby either.   I would rather be honest and give good advice on how to fix it.  To me, that is advancing the hobby and helping others.  I am not demanding anyone fix or change anything, just providing accurate info.  They can either take it or leave it.

 

 

2 hours ago, USMCVet said:

...he can just sand the seam off and modify that cap, right?

 

No, they will still not be right.  The cans are a totally different shape.  If he wants to, he can source the right cans from wherever he wants.

Edited December 22, 2023 by HeavyArty

[USMCVet]

Like I said, there are constructive, helpful ways to help other modelers with their details and to a large part, your photos and descriptions are excellent and quite helpful - but you do have a history of combative reactions and aggressive disagreements with RotorMan, nicht war? I hark back to a more courtly hobby, with experienced, well-read folks helping other modelers. You have the knowledge - just need to work on the diplomacy part.

[Rotorman]

Hi,

First, i just want to point out that I am visual builder and this reflects the way I build, paint and display  all off my projects. I have competed many times with my projects  and I am yet to hear anyone at the shows pointing out  how wrong the color, shape or the year the actual piece was designed or used  on my builds but that is another story on modeling forums. As far as the fuel cans go on my dio, Can you honestly say it is  impossible for the fuel cans from WW2 to still be used in the late 60s?...maybe, maybe not. 

 

Thanks for following the build

 

Oliver

[HeavyArty]

3 hours ago, USMCVet said:

You have the knowledge - just need to work on the diplomacy part.

Wow, I guess you don't like me.  I'm so sad and I am sorry I offended your sensitive nature.  Now back to modeling.

Edited December 22, 2023 by HeavyArty

[USMCVet]

Temper, temper, son!

[HeavyArty]

No temper at all, I just think you are being ridiculous.  So be it.  I doubt we will ever agree on this.

[kike]

4 hours ago, HeavyArty said:

No temper at all, I just think you are being ridiculous.  So be it.  I doubt we will ever agree on this.

Come on Gino, give us some credit!!! It's just how it "sounds" from our point of view, as I have stated, I use to think the same, and keep doing it, but I got to undesrstand your position wether I agree with it or not! One has to know you a bit more to put things together! let's chill and keep enjoying this modeling madness, accurate or not, It is what it is!!!

 

Let's move on...

[HeavyArty]

I have moved on, right after his first post.  Like I said above, lets get back to modeling.

[steel_tiger1]

There are 2 ways to look at this.... It's either right/correct or it's not, period. Information was shared with no malice whatsoever. If he chooses to change it or not is his decision, he's a grown man and can do what he wants. What I hate is people who complain about other people. You don't like what you see? Feel free to scroll right on past without commenting. It's easy. Lets not turn these forums into the same trolling/arguing wastes of time that Facebook is.

Edited December 24, 2023 by steel_tiger1
Autocorrect is stupid

[Rotorman]

[USMCVet]

Well, that’s a first - somebody who is proudly upfront to be a rivet counter!
 

I am of the side that does his level best to be as accurate as I can be - but I never waste my time or demean myself by criticizing other modeler’s work. Giving somebody suggestions, aiding them with details - all great. But publicly trumpeting the “errors” in some guy’s build is cruddy and given the recent history, it’s a pattern. As far as gas cans go, when I was in Vietnam in the Marines, we had lots of gear that dated back to WWII, including the howitzer ammo we fired and the C-Rations we ate. It is likely we had some of the earlier gas cans lying around too

 

As I said earlier, I come from a time when modeling was gentlemanly. All anyone has to do, if they see something worth mentioning, is to privately message the guy building and send their suggestion to him and him alone. Unless you and others believe that this forum is to support one guy’s ego over another.

[Cubs2jets]

8 hours ago, USMCVet said:

All anyone has to do, if they see something worth mentioning, is to privately message the guy building and send their suggestion to him and him alone. 

 

Thank you for stating what was going through my mind.

 

C2j

[USMCVet]

I promised Rotorman that I would start sending photos of my progress with my own UH-34D conversion of that Fly Model Wessex kit - so I'll begin now. I have a lot of personal history with the "Dog" (we never called them "Choctaws"), including being medically evacuated in one on May 1967. I also have no excuses for inaccuracy, because I have a pristine example about 8 miles from me now at the Marine Corps Museum at Quantico Virginia - so if any of you (including Heavy Artillery) would like any specific close-up photos of that bird, just ask me, and I'll get them to you.

1572662489_UH-34(2).HEIC 1037770790_UH-34(4).HEIC

[steel_tiger1]

13 hours ago, USMCVet said:

Well, that’s a first - somebody who is proudly upfront to be a rivet counter!
 

I am of the side that does his level best to be as accurate as I can be - but I never waste my time or demean myself by criticizing other modeler’s work. Giving somebody suggestions, aiding them with details - all great. But publicly trumpeting the “errors” in some guy’s build is cruddy and given the recent history, it’s a pattern. As far as gas cans go, when I was in Vietnam in the Marines, we had lots of gear that dated back to WWII, including the howitzer ammo we fired and the C-Rations we ate. It is likely we had some of the earlier gas cans lying around too

 

As I said earlier, I come from a time when modeling was gentlemanly. All anyone has to do, if they see something worth mentioning, is to privately message the guy building and send their suggestion to him and him alone. Unless you and others believe that this forum is to support one guy’s ego over another.

I think it's funny that someone that has knowledge about a particular subject or item is considered a"rivet counter". And somehow you think that calling someone a rivet counter is an insult to them. Most of us on here aren't snowflakes and words don't hurt us. I certainly don't care and I doubt Heavyarty does either. In fact quite the opposite, I wear it with pride.

 

[steel_tiger1]

4 hours ago, Cubs2jets said:

 

Thank you for stating what was going through my mind.

 

C2j

This is a counter intuitive thing to do. How else would anyone else learn the information? The reason for posting work and doing these build logs publicly is for the open exchange of ideas and information. I learned about US Jerry cans things I had no idea about and will be helpful going forward for me. If it had been done via pm how would I have learned? Just like Olivers amazing builds, full of useful information on scratch building and detailing, if it wasn't done on a public forum how would we all learn tips and techniques that we can use in our own modeling ? I don't think Oliver does these builds just so everyone can tell him how wonderful they are with every post, I certainly wouldn't. Discussion is an important tool for learning an improving your own builds. You may not like the way people impart the information, you may think they are being rude or whatever, remember it is almost always impossible to tell how someones demeanor is in a text based post. Also English is not everyone's first language either, and that can make a bigger difference on how a post sounds to you when you read it.  You who think you are the forum police have derailed this topic this will be my last post on this. Back on topic.

[USMCVet]

Suggestions, advice, comments, observations, helpful data - all good. Taunting, ridiculing, "I'm an expert and you're not" are not cool.  "Rivet counting" is considered a pejorative - because it describes the impossible pursuit of perfection, often at the expense of other modelers. IPMS judging suffers from both Rivet Counters - and folks with no idea at all of what you're attempting with your model.