niart17 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So I guess since I've been bugging everybody else about the 1/72 scale shuttle re-release, I'd better start posting up some stuff of my own. The first pic is just a quick dry fitting of the ET and boosters to see what areas need special attention. I can tell that you guys were right about the ET seams, they are going to be a little tricky. One thing I want to try to represent in the ET texture is the horizontal striations. I'm not sure how I'm going to achieve that but hopefully something will come up. On the 1/144 build I just sanded the tank a little rough around the circumference and that did a pretty good job of showing this. Anyway, here is the first shot next to the 1/144 stack to show a goos size reference. Hopefully I'll get a little done on it this weekend. Thanks, Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Bill, That thing is HUGE! :lol: The 1/144 stack looks like it's 6 inches tall. Can you post some closer pictures of the 1/144 stack in your other build thread? I see you've done some more work to the SRB's and added the black bands. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Easiest way I've found to deal with the ET seams is to build and sand them flat, then mask and spray on some texture paint (Krylon in my case). Once that is done, lightly sand to blend the texture paint, then shoot on a couple layers of primer and blend more as necessary. BTW, another thing that helps is if you chop out the flat bulkheads on the front and rear of the main tank halves with a saw or a dremel with a cutoff wheel. Then the side seams on the tank aren't as big a problem and once the nose cap and rear end plate are added, you still get plenty of structural rigidity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 You're right Mike, it is HUGE! Which is good and bad. Good because my eyes aren't what they used to be so the details are bigger. Good/bad because it makes me want to add more and more detail. And bad because it is afterall a space hog! This one may be a gift for my brother. Even though he hasn't been in the shuttle program for many years, I think he would love it. I think I've decide to do STS-135, the final mission. I know it's probably what everyone is going to do but something about doing a shuttle stack with "nose art" just seems cool and also this MIGHT be one of the most photographed mission ever so getting references should be pretty easy. As far as the 1/144 build, I've done a little bit more work on it but I'm not real happy with the stripes. I first tried paint but wasn't getting a clean straight enough line. The last attempt was a thin sharpie, which is pretty close but still not sure. I'll try to post some more progress when I get the chance to shoot some pics. Thanks Jay, I may take your advice on the bulkheads if I start having issues. As for the texture, one thought I had was to just sand off all of the texture as much as possible and then find something with the proper "grain" and spray all of the textured areas over. That would also allow me to maybe get that "ribbed" effect I was talking about. Not sure yet. more to come, Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Bill, I bought some black stripe decals from Microscale in 1/32" width. They are tedious to apply on top of the raised joints and require Micro Sol or a similar solvent to conform to the contour. I thought about painting the stripes but that seemed like even more work so I went with the decals. I'm looking forward to seeing some more progress pictures of your 1/144 build and of course I'll be following this 1/72 build. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Another thing, if you plan to make the present look of the shuttle ET, make a resin mold of the intertank. http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/169/3/c/new_shuttle_kit_by_onigojirakaiju-d3j90vu.jpg You can see my yet to be built kit next to my older kit of Atlantis. http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/022/d/6/et_patch_closeup_by_onigojirakaiju-d37rk8j.jpg You can replace the rectangular piece that has to be removed anyway, with a styrene strip. Place the new rectangular styrene piece directly in line with the orbiter's nose. Same with the back side of the tank. http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/030/4/2/et_back_panel_by_onigojirakaiju-d38f43d.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Believe me, you really don't want to sand the tank smooth since it takes a lot of work to pull off. I did it on my Moonraker and it was one of the most time consuming jobs I have ever done. If you do it though, keep a vacuum handy for all the white powder you have left over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) I have a better fix to the tank insulation/seam issue. Jay while your idea is heading in the right direction, it is much more efficient to simply spray the whole tank. The texture as-is, isn't really very realistic anyway. I simply built the entire tank and masked off the appropriate areas and sprayed the entire thing with Rust-Oleum Multicolor textured paint. While plastic is not mentioned as a material for application a quick glance at the MSD sheet on-line revealed that everything should be fine. That said, I am full aware of Murphy's influence on previous modeling ventures so I sprayed a peice of sprue from the kit and let it dry for a week or so and everything was fine. Here is an overall shot of the coated tank: This is a shot of the rear section with access area added. Notice how well everything blends together where the rear seam is: The entire tank was built including the supports before it was painted and this shot reveals how well you can mask and spray from a rattle can. Also notice the much more realistic texture than what is supplied in the kit: Finally a close up that shows how well this texture looks and eliminates seams. BUT, you do still have to putty and do the appropriate body work: As for the final color coat, should be no problem. I've already tested Tamiya acrylics on the original sprue I coated and with a barrier of Future, everything worked fine! By the way I will also use this coating for the SRB foam rings and area around the nozzles. Edited June 19, 2011 by Brian 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The second to last photo of the aft attach points to the orbiter for the kit is not accurate. Here is a photo of the real ET showing the way it is supposed to look. http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/images/content/149269main_ET-119_2571_2660x2128.jpg http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-070810a/004.jpg Below the two vertical strips is where it should be cut off at, just as the photos show. http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/captnkirk/ET138_022.jpg The eletrical cable tray on the kit is missing. To replicate it get this Plastruct part http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/286/4/a/atlantis_model_detail_by_onigojirakaiju-d30oz9w.jpg The LH2 feet line is another modification to work on. It should look like this http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/GRP/Scale/ShuttleData/STRUTS_interfaces/Shuttle_Umbilical_Hydrogen.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Brian, that's a SUPERB tip! Thanx very much! Gotta get me some of that magic paint!! Bill, um ... are ya sur-r-r-re you wanna start this ... I mean, I ha-a-a-a-ad hoped to see a 1/48 shuttle, and may-y-y-y-y-be a 1/144 shuttle stack oh ... and ... I don't think I ever saw-w-w-w the Apollo splashdown diorama. yer buddy Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redwoodmodels Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I love this topic. I'm totally subscribing. The tips are awesome. I've always wanted to do one of these but couldn't figure this stuff out. How do you guys do tiles? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Mark, those are excellent pictures! Thanks! I"m not sure what I'm going to do about tiles, I saw some decals on Ebay that look good, but not sure if they will work because they are printed by an ink jet printer plus they are really exspensive. I have a CE set somewhere in the stash but not thrilled about them either. I thought about making a PE template and spraying them on but they are really tiny. I will also be using the Revell orbiter on my stack because to me it looks better. Anyone want a deal on a Monogram shuttle?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jockdeboer Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Contact Keith McNeill (keithmcneill@blueyonder.co.uk). He does decals using the pics taken in orbit. Very nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I did, but with the exchange rate they run around $75 plus shipping....way too much! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Nice idea Brian. Did you spray direct over the plastic or did you sand it flush first? I've seen ET foam texture up close with some samples of it and while the texture of the RM kit may not be totally accurate, it does the job for my uses for the most part (and ET foam can be very rough looking stuff). Admittedly representing the striation patterns in the foam could be a little tough to do without putting the thing on a lathe, but one doesn't really notice these things too much on a real shuttle stack anyway. Still, I may try this technique of yours as the pictures of the results look good to my eye and it would solve the problems with blending the areas on the tank. As for the Krylon I used, on my 117 stack I oversprayed it with Gunze Mr. Resin Primer, which is somewhat high solvent. It took the stuff just fine with no bad reaction. As such, it should take most any paint okay as well. For STS-1, I am going to try to pre-shade the white a little as the ET on that flight had a very slight tan tinge to it in certain lighting conditions. So after primering, I will spray on a light tan shade, then follow with the white. Hopefully that will do the job for my uses. If that doesn't work, I'll mix the shade and overspray it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Well on the tiles I learned from another modeler you can srib the tiles onto the model, which is very time consuming. The results stunk as far as my attempt went. Another is if you get the fine mesh screen material used for windows on storm doors. Lay a bit of that on the kit and spray on the paint of choice. Before it totally dried remove the screen mesh and see what results. I have yet to try that method, and it's one I thought up by accident. I'll try to get a photo of this tile method. The Monogram orbiter is best for a realistic shuttle kit. I know as I once got a Revell kit and was unhappy with the look of the kit. All you have to do is put the two kits, not built or painted, together and you can see how they compare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Bill, um ... are ya sur-r-r-re you wanna start this ... I mean, I ha-a-a-a-ad hoped to see a 1/48 shuttle, and may-y-y-y-y-be a 1/144 shuttle stack oh ... and ... I don't think I ever saw-w-w-w the Apollo splashdown diorama. yer buddy Pete Let's see, am I surrre? hmmm.....well I guess I think about as sure about it as I think I am about other builds I start...so yeah, I think I am positively partially sure I think I want to start this one...maybe. 1/48? 1/48?...Did I say anything about a 1/...oh I did? ummm...errr.... must have been some sleep deprived crazy talk. nah, all in good time. I still pull out that vac formed nose section and try to figure out a better way around the windows. I think doing progressivly larger and more detailed builds is a better and cheaper way of working out potential problems on a massive scratch project. I can see by looking at the break down of this monogram kit that I have a better idea of how I want to do the 1/48 so it's already helped a little. And I did actually post the mostly completed splashdown dio. but I'm sure it's buried back several pages. I could always go add more to it, but I think I brought it as far as I wanted to at that time. Hey Mark, as far as the tiles, I think window mesh will be too small for 1/72 scale. I think that technique was written about in one of the modeling spacecraft books way back and it was on a 1/144 scale shuttle. the results were pretty good. But 1/72 scale tiles are quite a bit bigger than most window screen patterns. I think I'm going to attempt some homemade decals like on my 1/144 scale I just might have to touch them up a bit in Illustrator. And yeah Brian, I think that texture is much better than what the kit has. I will be looking for that as well. I wonder if I sribe lines around the tank first and then spray if that will get me the subtle striated effect I'd like to achieve....hmm..putting it on a lathe...THAT might actually be doable. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Nice idea Brian. Did you spray direct over the plastic or did you sand it flush first? Jay, just sand the kit in the areas that you normally would to get the body work right. The texture paint is thick enough to cover both sanded and un sanded areas to make them uniform. Well on the tiles I learned from another modeler you can srib the tiles onto the model, which is very time consuming. The results stunk as far as my attempt went. Another is if you get the fine mesh screen material used for windows on storm doors. Lay a bit of that on the kit and spray on the paint of choice. Before it totally dried remove the screen mesh and see what results. I have yet to try that method, and it's one I thought up by accident. I'll try to get a photo of this tile method. The Monogram orbiter is best for a realistic shuttle kit. I know as I once got a Revell kit and was unhappy with the look of the kit. All you have to do is put the two kits, not built or painted, together and you can see how they compare. Mark, I tried the window screen method and while it is very easy to use, it does not represent the staggered "brick" pattern of the real shuttle. As for the accuracy of the Monogram vs Revell, I think each has its pros and cons. Which just made me realize I didn't introduce myself here, hi everyone, I work for Fisher Models and we are doing some serious sets for the Revell orbiter. We based our decision that after this release with the boosters, you will likely never see this kit again so Revell will be all future modelrs will have to work with. And yeah Brian, I think that texture is much better than what the kit has. I will be looking for that as well. I wonder if I sribe lines around the tank first and then spray if that will get me the subtle striated effect I'd like to achieve....hmm..putting it on a lathe...THAT might actually be doable. Bill Bill, I would laminate some real thin Evergreen strips around the tank. That should give you the look you want. A lathe would work well to though, just depends on what you feel more comfortable with! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Which just made me realize I didn't introduce myself here, hi everyone, I work for Fisher Models and we are doing some serious sets for the Revell orbiter. We based our decision that after this release with the boosters, you will likely never see this kit again so Revell will be all future modelrs will have to work with. What sets are you working on? Will you also be doing anything for the 1/144 Shuttle kits? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) What sets are you working on? Will you also be doing anything for the 1/144 Shuttle kits? Hi Mike, I'm still sorting through your emails and will draft a response to you tonight! We are doing a cockpit, mid deck, hatch, wheels, RCS packs, nozzles (SSME & OMS), and fuel umbilical openings and doors. We have had some great help from alot of knowledgeable people including Jay and I feel confident they will blow you guys away. That said, we don't plan on anything in 1/144 yet. Edited June 20, 2011 by Brian 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Mike, I'm still sorting through your emails and will draft a response to you tonight! We are doing a cockpit, mid deck, hatch, wheels, RCS packs, nozzles (SSME & OMS), and fuel umbilical openings and doors. We have had some great help from alot of knowledgeable people including Jay and I feel confident they will blow you guys away. That said, we don't plan on anything in 1/144 yet. Brian, That all sounds like there will be some real nice stuff. As far as 1/144 sets go, it seem like a lot more 1/144 Shuttle kits are built. I'd be interested in some of the parts you mentioned in 1/144. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkD Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I based the screen method on the fact that looking at the grid pattern next to a Revell 1/72 scale orbiter, the tiles at best would be 1/4th the size of that of the large squares put on the bottom of the Revell orbiter. That's the best option I had, aside from scribbing the tiles on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Yeah, and Brian made me sign a non-disclosure agreement so I couldn't tell you what he was working on. ;) Seriously though, what I've seen so far looks very nice and the new stuff should go quite a ways towards helping with shuttle models looking more accurate. Of course, I am not going to reveal what exactly he is doing as I don't want to spoil the surprise. :) As for tile patterns, I tried the screen method on my STS-107 Columbia stack as I was pretty advanced in the paint stage when I got wind of the first CE decal sets coming out in 2003. Even for the minor flaws with the decals, the results looked a lot better. As for other methods, I had very good luck on my Moonraker stack with drawing the tiles on the white areas and while Moonraker's tiles were not quite the same shape as real ones, I see no reason why the technique couldn't work for a real shuttle model. Main problem I ran into was pencil smudging, but once the tiles were down, I misted on some light coats of white to fade them and the results looked rather good to my eye. I didn't try doing any tiles on the bottom of the orbiter though (mainly because most of them can't be seen easily with an orbiter on the stack). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian 1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Cats out of the bag Jay. Check your email. Edited June 21, 2011 by Brian 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crowe-t Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) MEEEEOOOOOOOWWWWWW :lol: Sorry, I couldn't resist! Edited June 21, 2011 by crowe-t Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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