VMFA-212 F-4J "5" 1/32 Tamiya

[Marcel111]

Hi guys,

I though the best way to bounce back from the Chico disaster is to focus attention on the next project. As previously promised, this will be a VMFA-212 F-4J, the period will be 1972 Da Nang.

The specific aircraft will be “5”. Most VMFA-212 F-4J decal sheets cover “14”, which was lost with both crew over Vietnam in 1972. I prefer doing “5” for sentimental reasons and also just to be a little different.

This will be one of the more heavily or downright outrageously loaded Phantoms around: In addition to two wing tanks, “5” will be loaded with six LAU-10’s on the inboard wing stations and six Mk.20 Rockeyes on the centerline, plus a single AIM-7E in the port forward bay. Before you say whoa, that’s totally over the top, here is the supporting evidence for the load out.

Six LAU-10’s is actually not as unusual as it may seem at first glance. There is a great picture of a VF-33 Phantom with six LAU-10’s in Danny Coremans’ Phantom book (p. 170). There is a pic of a Silver Eagles flying out of Da Nang F-4 with this load on p. 50 of the “US Marine Corps F-4 Phantom II units of the Vietnam War”. The “Marine Aviation in Vietnam” DVD also shows some Marine F-4’s taxiing with sic LAU-10’s and six centerline-mounted Mk-82’s. Finally, the Fox One 32-006 sheet details the loadout of a VMFA-334 Phantom on 24 & 25. November 1968 to have been 6x LAU-10’s and 6x Mk.20’s, together with wing tanks. The sheet goes on to provide specifics of the mission. Fox One were considered very well-researched sheets.

Of course, I could just build the VMFA-334 Phantom since I have the sheet, but I just really like the look of the VMFA-221 tails. I do think the Zuni/Rockeye loadout will be feasible for a period VMFA-212 jet: VMFA-212 was equipped with Rockeye at the time of deployment and Zunis were pretty much carried by all Marine Phantoms over Vietnam. As to the exact loadout I will be doing, all deployment pics I have of VMFA-212 during 1972 show a centerline MER, inboard TER and outboard wing tank configuration, plus port forward Sparrow. This also aligns with the configuration stated in the VMFA-212 Fox One sheet.

Here are some period representations and pics showing what VMFA-212 Phantoms looked like:

“5” (these are somewhat after the Vietnam deployment):

A full-color pic from 1975, the nose is no longer just white:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/McD_F-4J_155850_VMFA-212_WD-9_Dallas_NAS_19.10.75_edited-2.jpg

Getting Started with the Zunis (some of this is re-post from my Chico build):

The six LAU-10’s are from Fischer, however, the actual rockets presented a challenge. I want to model the Zunis with a very pointy fuze/warehead section, as is appropriate for the period I will be modeling, plus this Zuni type also looks particularly aggressive. The rockets supplied with the Fischer set are of a different type. Also, since the rockets pods will be the center of interest of the completed model, the rockets need to be pretty perfect looking, and the look must be consistent across all 24 rockets.

A huge coincidence is that 5 inches equals almost exactly 4mm in 1/32 scale ((25.4 x 5)/32 = 3.97mm). This is really nice since I can use a standard 4mm rod or tube to create the basic Zuni.

Knowing this, here is how I proceeded: I took an internet pic, pasted it into Powerpoint and then measured the conical angle of the rockets as shown below. I had to compensate for the fact that the pic is somewhat oblique, so the measurements are a best guess.

Notice how the tip is more acute than the section immediately behind the tip. This in turn led me to source a OD = 4mm, ID = 2.5mm brass tube, together with a 2.5mm brass rod, with the intend of forming the rod to the more acute-angled tip, and the tube with the less acute angled tip. And for a long time that is where I was stuck.

Fortunately, the company I joined last yearis quite uncomplicated and my friends in the prototyping shop eventually produced what you see below on a little lathe, to my specs and with the tubes and rod I supplied.

Here are the little gem-filled bags:

The construction (all just dry-fitting):

And here are all 24 Zunis--again, all just dry-fit right now:

The thought of painting 24 Zunis is a little frightening and also simply challenging, it is critical that all 24 Zunis end up looking the same. So I dreamed up this fixture to give the Zuni rocket tips the consistent olive drab tips they need:

Now all I have to do is airbruch over that and see if all the planning was worthwhile.

Cheers,

Marcel

Edited September 5, 2014 by Marcel111

[Finn]

Good come back Marcel with the F-4J, in case you want to do something a little different how about 2 LAU-10s under the i/b pylons with a 2 tube LAU-33 on the rail. You can make them out in this pic:

http://www.veteran.com/files/images/22-VMFA-232%20Refuel.jpg

Jari

[Air-to-Air]

Turned metal fabrication, unique solutions to painting challenges, looking forward to seeing this build come together.

[Marcel111]

Thx Rob!

  Quote

Good come back Marcel with the F-4J, in case you want to do something a little different how about 2 LAU-10s under the i/b pylons with a 2 tube LAU-33 on the rail. You can make them out in this pic:

http://www.veteran.c...32%20Refuel.jpg

Jari

Jari, great to see you are keeping the faith with my Phantom builds!

I do like the LAU-33 configuration, it's just that IMO three LAU-10's on a TER looks even nastier. On a technical note, I haven't come across pics of VMFA-212 using the LAU-33...

Marcel

[Finn]

In the US Marine Corps F-4 Phantom II Units of the Vietnam War book on pg 58 there is a pic of a F-4B with loaded LAU-10 and LAU-33 on it. Of course it's your build but just because there are no pics of VMFA-212 with the LAU-33 doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you have time on your hands and want to do some research check here:

http://www.recordsofwar.com/vietnam/usmc/USMC_Rvn.htm

some useful info there on which squadrons did what and what they carried. Not complete but still useful.

Jari

[Aigore]

Wow, a zuni heavy marine phantom! That's going to be awesome!!

[Finn]

I don't know how detailed you want to go with the Rockeyes but they did have lots of stencils on them:

http://media.nara.gov/stillpix/330-cfd/1990/DN-ST-90-11376.jpeg

the ones on top are mainly to indicate where the wires hook up on the conduits for various a/c and racks.

Jari

[Marcel111]

Thx Janne!

Jari, thx for the CBU pic, very useful. If you recall from my Chico build, I have spent quite a bit of time on the CBU's so yeah, I will go deep on detail although the challenge with those tiny stencils is that they are hard to decipher and thus hard to make custom decals for.

I have put together the below sheet in order to cover the CBU and LAU (shown before on the Chico build):

On the configuration: I'm enjoying the conversation and it's making me think I should give myself a little more flexibility. At some point in the past I believe it was you that put me onto the decalssified command chronology of VMFA-232 for 1 to 30 November 1972. It features a great pic showing an F-4J with a very mixed load, including outer wing MERs with tandem Rockeyes. I am now thinking I may do this on the outside stations, just to show off all the work I did with the CBU's a little more. But I am pretty hooked on the 6x LAU-10's ;)

Cheers,

Marcel

[Finn]

Here are a couple more Rockeye pics:

http://media.nara.gov/stillpix/330-cfd/1983/DF-SN-83-03225.jpeg

http://media.nara.gov/stillpix/330-cfd/1987/DN-SC-87-00517.jpeg

Jari

[dsahling]

Just out of curiosity, I saw you made your own decals...my next project is going to be a 1/32 A-4E Skyhawk from 'Top Gun' (Jester's A-4 to be specific). Unfortunately, I cannot find the decals ANYWHERE, I have plans to paint some of the more rudimentary stencils and then use black ink from my laser printer decals for the lettering (not technically realistic as they used browns and tans for most of the lettering. If I sent you a copy of what I was thinking of doing, could I hire you to finalize and print them for me in color? I would be willing to generously compensate you for the work and time as well as all shipping and material costs.

Thanks

Dan

[Youngtiger1]

Marcel, it's going to be another great project. Those zunis are going to look awesome. I have a set of Fisher's set but might have to get a OD brass set. Btw, can you share a link of your OD brass parts? Also, I'm behind in following your Chico...what disaster did you encounter?

Mike

[Youngtiger1]

I just caught up Chico and oh man, that's just messed up. I'll keep a look out for a sheet for you. In the mean time, model on buddy

[Marcel111]

Dan, I have Mav Decals make my custom decals. Zane is generally pretty fast and not too expensive, but shipment is from South Africa and therefore may take a while. Check out www.mavdecals.co.za

Mike, thanks for the support! Howvere, I am not familiar with "OD brass set"?

  Quote

I'll keep a look out for a sheet for you. In the mean time, model on buddy.

And thanks for looking out for the sheet, looks like Chuck will likely have me sorted out.

Ok, so now I am definitely comitting to the six LAU-10's AND outside wing mounted MER's with the Rockeyes in tandem, see below in-action pic taken from the VMFA-232 command chronology.

Noting how little daylight there is between the two CBU's in the pic above I quickly did a check and sure enough, the Rockeyes on my model would have interferred with one another. I have thus stretched the Tamiya MER by 4mm. This was done by adding a 4mm plug using a spare Tamiya MER from the F-4E kit. I hope to show some pics tomorrow.

:cheers:/>/>/>/>

Marcel

Edited August 22, 2014 by Marcel111

[Finn]

Not the best reference but close enough:

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/shawn_antunes/f-105d_61-0086/index.php?Page=2

it shows how close the bombs are together, and you can read some of the labels as well.

Jari

[Marcel111]

Thx Jari, thats pretty much exactly how mine will be spaced after adding the plug.

BTW can anyone confirm that Navy/marine outside pylons were canted outward like they were on USAF Phantoms?

Marcel

Edited August 22, 2014 by Marcel111

[Finn]

This is a F-4B, note the MER is angled:

don't know if the J was the same.

edit: here is another one, a J this time:

looks like the pylon wasn't angled on Navy/Marine jets, most likely when the MERS/TERs were installed on the o/b pylons, they just cranked the sway braces on the i/b side down far enough to angle the MER/TER. Unless there weren't any plans to load the inside stations then they may have left the sway braces as is to let the MER/TER hang vertical.

Jari

Edited August 23, 2014 by Finn

[Marcel111]

  Quote

looks like the pylon wasn't angled on Navy/Marine jets, most likely when the MERS/TERs were installed on the o/b pylons, they just cranked the sway braces on the i/b side down far enough to angle the MER/TER. Unless there weren't any plans to load the inside stations then they may have left the sway braces as is to let the MER/TER hang vertical.

Thx Jari... yeah, looked like I can use some discretion on this one.

Marcel

[Marcel111]

Here's a little update.

The MER placed on top of two CBU's... note the distance between the two Mk.7 dispensers, which I think corresponds well with the pics on Jari's link. The MER was lengthened by 4mm, else the didispensers would have interfered with one another.

The results of the fuze tips sprayed green... the fixture decribed above worked as planned.

Magnified view of a fuze test-fitted into a Zuni body. There are 24 of these and they all look pretty much exactly the same :woo:/>

:cheers:/>

Marcel

Edited August 24, 2014 by Marcel111

[Neo]

Dang thats cool!! Amazing work

[Marcel111]

Thanks Neo!

I haven't been getting any modelling time in. Last weekend was an Indian Princess weekend for me, we have a pretty awesome group going over here, the chief is from Florida, all the daughters of the group are in the 5 to 6 years old age range. Here are some pics of last weekend. This is the Aletsch glacier, a world heritage site. The girls did really well, they hiked for 7 hours on the Saturday, albeit with very many stops.

Next Saturday is Air Payerne, which has an awesome demo line up including EF-2000, Rafale, Gripen, F-16, F-18, Mig-29, Mirage III and F-5. Sunday is off to work. By the time I come back my wife will want a divorce since she won't have seen much of me for quite a while.

:cheers:/>

Marcel

[chuck540z3]

  On 9/2/2014 at 6:04 PM, Marcel111 said:

Next Saturday is Air Payerne, which has an awesome demo line up including EF-2000, Rafale, Gripen, F-16, F-18, Mig-29, Mirage III and F-5. Sunday is off to work. By the time I come back my wife will want a divorce since she won't have seen much of me for quite a while.

Marcel

I hate you!! I have always wanted to see Air Payerne. Do you have any room in your basement for a geezer from Canada? :P

Also, really nice pics. I've seen similar glaciers in Canada, but nothing as big and impressive as that one.

[Marcel111]

  Quote

I hate you!! I have always wanted to see Air Payerne. Do you have any room in your basement for a geezer from Canada?

we have a guest room, best thing about it is that it is also my hobby area and as such is the home of my completed models, all sitting in a big display cabinet. For once, we'd have a guest that appreciates all the plastic...

  Quote

Also, really nice pics. I've seen similar glaciers in Canada, but nothing as big and impressive as that one.

Yeah, I think the Aletsch may be the biggest one in Europe...

[Marcel111]

The Tamiya MERs are proving to require far more work than anticipated. First off, they were too short, as already described. Then, I discovered that the outboard pylong are located way too far back on the pylon (this is shown very nicely in the Danny Coremans Phantom book).

On the pic below, the pylon closest to the camera is correctly located, while the pylon further away from the camer is as per Tamiya original.

This may seem very simple to fix but really required more work than meets the eye, since the mounting blocks that the sway braces interface to need to be sanded off and new, correctly positioned ones made.

Since I am restarting the Chico buiild, this thread will likely slow down a little for now.

:cheers:/>

Marcel

Edited September 5, 2014 by Marcel111

[Finn]

The positioning of the MER on the o/b pylons depended on the stores that will be loaded in order to keep the proper a/c center of gravity. So with some bombs the MER would be moved forward and others it would be moved back. Note in this pic the lugs of the MER can be moved to accommodate various a/c bomb racks, and their center of gravity:

http://media.nara.gov/stillpix/330-cfd/1990/DN-SC-90-04222.jpeg

edit: here are a couple of examples of MERs moved forward:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/F-4B_Phantom_of_VF-41_dropping_bombs_in_1962.jpg

http://www.harrierpilot.com/history/f4b-rockets.jpg

and this one aft:

http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/gallery/images/f4/d4c-36661.jpg

Jari

Edited September 5, 2014 by Finn

[Marcel111]

Jari, thx for the intel, VERY interesting. Most pics do show the pylons to be mounted further back... the work needed to be done anyway, since the sway braces on the Tamiya outside pylons do not line up with those interface things on the MERs.

Marcel