falcon20driver Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've seen this pop up recently in a few builds. Does anyone have any information about mixing CA and baby powder to make a filler? How to and how much? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've seen a couple of demos on Youtube, and the "demo guy" put the CA in place. He then used a large, fine brush, similar to one of those ladies make-up brushes and brushed either baking powder or baking soda right on the wet CA glue. The stuff dried instantly. I tried it myself and it worked. I also did a little more research. Take this with a grain of salt, but I saw several posts that stated that this was a bad idea, because within about a year or so, the CA started to crack. Now, like I said, take it with a grain of salt and do your own research. I use "kicker" only in areas where it won't be seen and on top of something that has already been glued together. I mostly use it on the insides of large seams for some extra strength. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Thanks. I currently just use CA on its own and I'm quite happy with that, but I'm always happy to lewrn something new. Maybe I need to try Pauls's technique of CA and dentist stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If the baby powder contains corn starch, it will absorb moisture, expand, and cause cracking—not to mention has the potential to grow mold. Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will also serve as an accelerator. However, using too much will cause the joint to effloresce if the humidity gets high enough. Really ruins a paint job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Falcon20driver, Just use an accelerator. I apply some to a micro brush and get as close to the CA glue as possible without touching it. The fumes do the work. If you do touch the CA glue, the brush most likely will bond to it. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 if you have a place that needs filler, you could use an infant nasal bulb filled with microballoons. just apply your superglue, add some balloons, and wave some accelerator over the mixture if it is not filled in yet, do it again the only level you need to worry about sanding on is the last layer, for that one, just use the superglue without accelerator, and sand after your normal super glue waiting period Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tempestwulf Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I've used it and works pretty good all in all, although I've only got thin superglue on hand. Thick stuff would be easier. Because of this I fill the recess with talcom powder and drip some thin CA in. It dries nigh instantly and is much easier to sand. Some people also use weathering powder so it's colored and you can see where you've sanded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I personally have had about my fill of super glue. I have used it for years and it has done wonders but trying to fill gaps with it is murder. I use fillers now for the problem areas and also use plastic sheet if it is available to fill gaps. I also use Tamiya Extra Thin now. Holly crap what a difference in clean up. Now I know why the guys who do scratch building like Oliver use this stuff. I will probably never go back to super glue unless I need something bonded right now. Super Glue is good for certain things. Chuck540z lives by the stuff and I even bought a bottle of the super glue de-bonder because of his insight. The stuff works great without mess. But you cant use it on a painted surface unless its acrylic. Even then I would hesitate because it is so strong. I have a mess of an F-5F to try and figure out because I tried the de bonder on it and man it only took a coupe of seconds and the paint was ruined. The only problem with the Tamiya extra thin is that you have to have a clean surface to bond to. Super glue lets you get away with not having to clean parts because of the glue getting into every nook and cranny to bond the join together. The problem is that super glue will never be as strong as the vulcanization of two pieces of plastic. They melt together to make one join just like Welding. When you use super glue for filling gaps you ruin all detail surrounding the area that you have to sand the super glue off of. The better way in my opinion is getting a good feel of how the pieces fit together dry fitting everything and come up with a solution before you glue. Instead of using super glue you could use Auto body filler which has the same qualities as the Tamiya fillers as they get hot and basically weld themselves to the plastic. What ever you do get out of the super glue filler and putting everything together with super glue. It is great in a pinch but over all if you look outside of the box and experiment with other glues you will be more happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks a ton for the suggestions guys. As I continue to learn the hobby I'm always thrilled to learn new techniques. I'll be trying these techniques in an upcoming build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I personally have had about my fill of super glue. I have used it for years and it has done wonders but trying to fill gaps with it is murder. I use fillers now for the problem areas and also use plastic sheet if it is available to fill gaps. I also use Tamiya Extra Thin now. Holly crap what a difference in clean up. Now I know why the guys who do scratch building like Oliver use this stuff. I will probably never go back to super glue unless I need something bonded right now. Super Glue is good for certain things. Chuck540z lives by the stuff and I even bought a bottle of the super glue de-bonder because of his insight. The stuff works great without mess. But you cant use it on a painted surface unless its acrylic. Even then I would hesitate because it is so strong. I have a mess of an F-5F to try and figure out because I tried the de bonder on it and man it only took a coupe of seconds and the paint was ruined. The only problem with the Tamiya extra thin is that you have to have a clean surface to bond to. Super glue lets you get away with not having to clean parts because of the glue getting into every nook and cranny to bond the join together. The problem is that super glue will never be as strong as the vulcanization of two pieces of plastic. They melt together to make one join just like Welding. When you use super glue for filling gaps you ruin all detail surrounding the area that you have to sand the super glue off of. The better way in my opinion is getting a good feel of how the pieces fit together dry fitting everything and come up with a solution before you glue. Instead of using super glue you could use Auto body filler which has the same qualities as the Tamiya fillers as they get hot and basically weld themselves to the plastic. What ever you do get out of the super glue filler and putting everything together with super glue. It is great in a pinch but over all if you look outside of the box and experiment with other glues you will be more happy. Devilleader501, You use CA/Super Glue for filling small seams, or voids, not larger and or deeper areas. For that I still use Squadron Green Stuff thinned with a little Extra Thin liquid cement as it evaporates slower then plain old Lacquer Thinner. I use 3 thicknesses of CA glue for different applications. For a thin seam a 1/4 inch or so or a panel line I screwed up re-scribing, I use thin CA. I apply it with a sharpened toothpick, and make sure that it's a little higher then the surface and just past the edge on both sides. Then I hold a Micro brush that I dipped into a bottle of Accelerator close to the CA glue but I don't touch it, as the fumes will dry it in a few seconds. If you do touch the glue, the odds are that the brush will bond to the glue. I let that continue to dry for 5 min, then I sand with 320, 600, 4,000. That's it. You still see the gap as the glue once polished is clear. Test with a little surface primer for peace of mind. As for CA glue ruining any detail next to the area to be filled, the same applies to putty or any filler. It's really all in how you apply it. If the detail is a recessed panel line and or rivets, as soon as the CA glue is dried, re-scrbe and or use a pin, needle, or the proper size nail to re-punch the rivet hole. As a matter of fact, it's much easier to control CA glue then work with putty. As for your reference to car putty, commonly referred to as Bondo, it dries rock hard, doesn't really shrink, and is stronger then Green Stuff as it's made for cars and the outside environment. I don't know where you came up with the concept that Tamiya Extra thin doesn't work on painted surfaces. It eats right through the paint to bond both pieces. The less paint it has to eat through, the less glue you need to brush on, and the less chance of that goop running or getting on the surface of one of the parts. Tamiya's Orange cap glue, which is thicker, doesn't eat through paint. Extra thin melts the plastic to bond them together as one piece, while CA glue just bond them, and you can still twist larger pieces apart. Extra Thin won't fill gaps, but will melt the surrounding plastic so that it flows into the seam. As a standard practice, every part, and sub assembly should be dry fitting, and worked till you get the best fit you can. I've never used De-bonder, so I can't comment on it one way or the other. Joel Edited January 15, 2015 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
happy1 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The only filler I use is mister surfacer 500 1000 apply with a brush wait a little bit remove excess with a Q-tip dipped in Isopropyl Alcohol that way you don't remove any detail because you don't have to sand, been doing it this way for years. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The only filler I use is mister surfacer 500 1000 apply with a brush wait a little bit remove excess with a Q-tip dipped in Isopropyl Alcohol that way you don't remove any detail because you don't have to sand, been doing it this way for years. Paul :thumbsup:/> Discovered this technique about a year ago. Combining this with CA for the big holes or gaps is great. Do the major filling with CA, filled or not, then finish with Mr. Surfacer 500 and 1000. Small stuff, Mr. S. 500 or 1000 is all you need. Note that 90% isopropyl works better than 70%, IMHO. There is a learning curve to Mr. Surfacer, but well worth it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
happy1 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 :thumbsup:/>/> Discovered this technique about a year ago. Combining this with CA for the big holes or gaps is great. Do the major filling with CA, filled or not, then finish with Mr. Surfacer 500 and 1000. Small stuff, Mr. S. 500 or 1000 is all you need. Note that 90% isopropyl works better than 70%, IMHO. There is a learning curve to Mr. Surfacer, but well worth it. Ya sometimes it takes two three times as Mr Surfacer shrinks down if the gap is wide enough but most of the time ounce will do it, I use 99% Isopropyl works even better. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks. I currently just use CA on its own and I'm quite happy with that, but I'm always happy to lewrn something new. Maybe I need to try Pauls's technique of CA and dentist stuff. Your right on there. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have tried done the application of accelerator trick with the minibrushes, and it works. However, if I'm using CA as a filler, I don't used accelerator because it dries instantly and there are bubbles dried in the CA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 :thumbsup:/>/> Discovered this technique about a year ago. Combining this with CA for the big holes or gaps is great. Do the major filling with CA, filled or not, then finish with Mr. Surfacer 500 and 1000. Small stuff, Mr. S. 500 or 1000 is all you need. Note that 90% isopropyl works better than 70%, IMHO. There is a learning curve to Mr. Surfacer, but well worth it. Mr.Surfacer primer is a lacquer based. Isopropyl Alcohol works with Acrylic based paints and primers. I thin Mr. Surfacer 1,000 with Tamiya yellow cap Lacquer thinner. It could use a few drops of a lacquer based retarder, as tip clogging is a issue. There are generally three strengths of Iso alcohol available: 50%, 70%, and 91%. That's IPA to distilled water. 91% evaporates much to quickly to effectively be used a thinning agent without the addition of a retarder. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Mr.Surfacer primer is a lacquer based. Isopropyl Alcohol works with Acrylic based paints and primers. I thin Mr. Surfacer 1,000 with Tamiya yellow cap Lacquer thinner. It could use a few drops of a lacquer based retarder, as tip clogging is a issue. There are generally three strengths of Iso alcohol available: 50%, 70%, and 91%. That's IPA to distilled water. 91% evaporates much to quickly to effectively be used a thinning agent without the addition of a retarder. Joel What you say is true when it comes to airbruhing, but I think the above discussions are about using Mr. Surfacer as a filler and after it dries, using cotton bud/rag dampened with alcohol to clean it up. That indeed works well. Tamiya surface primer also works the same here. On the other hand, I believe there are cases where there is no good substitute for super glue + baking soda: + Accelerator at times causes SG to shrink uncontrollably, creating dips and valleys. It also temporarily softens the surrounding plastic, which is not ideal for immediate sanding. + There are gaps where it would take many many layers of Mr. Surfacer or Tamiya Surface Primer to fill. These tend to shrink also. + Scribing lost details can be frustrating with putties, surfacer etc. SG + baking soda allows a quick way to fill gaps, sand, and rescribe. It also provides extra strength at the joint, if that is a concern. That said, there are uses for all of these techniques. I just wanted to point out that SG + baking soda can be hard to beat in certain situations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What you say is true when it comes to airbruhing, but I think the above discussions are about using Mr. Surfacer as a filler and after it dries, using cotton bud/rag dampened with alcohol to clean it up. That indeed works well. Tamiya surface primer also works the same here. On the other hand, I believe there are cases where there is no good substitute for super glue + baking soda: + Accelerator at times causes SG to shrink uncontrollably, creating dips and valleys. It also temporarily softens the surrounding plastic, which is not ideal for immediate sanding. + There are gaps where it would take many many layers of Mr. Surfacer or Tamiya Surface Primer to fill. These tend to shrink also. + Scribing lost details can be frustrating with putties, surfacer etc. SG + baking soda allows a quick way to fill gaps, sand, and rescribe. It also provides extra strength at the joint, if that is a concern. That said, there are uses for all of these techniques. I just wanted to point out that SG + baking soda can be hard to beat in certain situations. Janissary, My apologies for not sticking to the stated question. I also use both Mr. Surfacer 1,000 and Tamiya Gray surface primer as a filler for scratches rather then thinned Green Stuff. I let it surface dry for 5 min then using a Qtip dampened with Tamiya Yellow cap lacquer thinner I gently clean the area in a small circular motion. I've never had an issues where the plastic was damaged from the clean up. Tamiya LC is much milder then the big box store's brands like Klean Strip. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If the baby powder contains corn starch, it will absorb moisture, expand, and cause cracking—not to mention has the potential to grow mold. Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) will also serve as an accelerator. However, using too much will cause the joint to effloresce if the humidity gets high enough. Really ruins a paint job. Triarius, You are my go to man for all things chemical, et.al. AND, you never cease to amaze me. I have a dictionary close by, just for some of the words that you use. I have always tried to learn something everyday. With you around, it's easy! "Effloresce???" I'm not even gonna look it up. What does that mean, buddy??? Thanks and have a great day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Triarius, You are my go to man for all things chemical, et.al. AND, you never cease to amaze me. I have a dictionary close by, just for some of the words that you use. I have always tried to learn something everyday. With you around, it's easy! "Effloresce???" I'm not even gonna look it up. What does that mean, buddy??? Thanks and have a great day. /> Sodium bicarbonate is a "salt": NaHCO3. Salts are, in a general sense, crystalline solids that will dissolve in water (or other solvent) and reform into crystals upon drying. effloresce |ˌefləˈres| verb 1 [ intrans. ] • (of salts) come to the surface of brickwork, rock, or other material and crystallize there. (In our case, the filled joint or seam in a plastic kit.) • (of a surface) become covered with salt particles. (In our case, the painted surface of a completed kit. :(/>) I hope you're taking notes, as there will be a quiz next class … /> /> Edited January 30, 2015 by Triarius Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 This thread got scientific! Awesome info guys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
balls47 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This thread got scientific! Awesome info guys. Yessir, Scientific with a little humor thrown in for good measure. I hate it when guys get into a three page "argument" over something that ain't worth arguing about. Sooo, I figured a good laugh would be good for all. Have a great day! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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