UK possibly to pull out of F-35 programme

[Mark M.]

Heh... Preachin' to the choir, brotha!

[Rapier01]

I don't think it's so much a 'mourning' but more of a shock that that was the Powerful & Mighty Empire that we seceded from through a Declaration of Independence and Revolutionary War and now its on it's last ebbs of 'Dominion' ...

Does that make sense ? unsure.gif

Nothing lasts forever. The Romans, Hapsburg Spain, the Mongols, Ottomans, Ming China, Mughal India, France- Bourbon and Napoleonic, Britain, all came and went- I'm afraid we're no different... At least Britain's decline was relatively gentle and arguably the British population in general was better off post Empire than during the Empire. Remember, it wasn't until comparatively late that the average (white) person got to vote in Britain, prior to that the landed gentry rule as an oligarchy.

[Trigger]

I'm saying that, outside of the big players, no-one can afford to operate fifth-gen fighters.

Maybe not, but they can afford all those new IADS with the double-digit SAMs.

[Kei Lau]

I didn't say that. I'm saying that, outside of the big players, no-one can afford to operate fifth-gen fighters. Vince

Who are these "big players"? In 2010, UK ranks 6th in the world and has 2.5 times the GDP of Russia. If UK cannot afford it, who would?

[Wayne S]

Do not get what all you guys are talking about here now LOL.

Guys are coming up with crap that does not even fit into what the thread is about.

I have not found anything "yet" talking about UK pulling out of the F-35 program and buying F-18s nor have I found anything "Okaying/Gates" for UK to Buy F-18s from Boeing.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Wayne S

[vince14]

Do not get what all you guys are talking about here now LOL.

Guys are coming up with crap that does not even fit into what the thread is about.

I have not found anything "yet" talking about UK pulling out of the F-35 program and buying F-18s nor have I found anything "Okaying/Gates" for UK to Buy F-18s from Boeing.

OK, for one final time here's what's happening;

1 - The UK is in massive financial trouble. The new government has asked all departments to plan for financial cuts which, on average, will be about 25%. These will be implemented by the end of the financial year (March 2011). The MoD has to cut £36bn from it's budget.

2 - The cost of replacing Trident now has to come out of the MoD budget. It used to be paid for by the Treasury. So the MoD has to cut £36bn at the same time as finding £20bn for Trident (or it could just scrap the Trident renewal).

3 - One of the options being considered is reducing the number of F-35 airframes to be purchased. Another is to pull out of the programme completely. If the decision is to pull out the Royal Navy will have a brand new aircraft carrier (only one, as the second is likely to be built and immediately sold off) with no aircraft to operate from it. In that scenario, one of the options *might* be to convert her to be able to use the F-18.

4 - Central Government has the final say on what gets cut. We won't know exactly where the axe falls until the revised budget for the MoD is announced, probably in October. You won't find anything official about pulling out of the F-35, or buying the F-18, until after the budget has been announced.

All the above is fact.

Come October, one of the scenarios below will become the official UK line on the F-35 programme;

1 - No change at all. Still fully committed to buying 150 airframes.

2 - A reduction in the number of airframes purchased, possibly to about 60.

3 - Fully pulling out of the F-35 programme. No aircraft purchased. The Royal Navy operates a brand new aircraft carrier without aircraft.

4 - Fully pulling out of the F-35 programme. The new carrier is converted to be able to operate other aircraft, possibly the F-18 but other types would be considered as well.

Vince

[sweaty]

Vince the defence budget for the U.K. is about 36bn a year i don't think were cutting all of it

Jamie

[Oroka]

Vince the defence budget for the U.K. is about 36bn a year i don't think were cutting all of it

Jamie

They will buy the F-35s, but there will be no bases or ships to fly them from (or pilots to fly them)! <_<

ALL YOUR BASES ARE BELONG TO US!

[TaiidanTomcat]

Maybe not, but they can afford all those new IADS with the double-digit SAMs.

Trigger is right. A navy admiral in Korea once lamented about losing the sea to "A country that doesn't even have a navy" -Sea Mines are nasty things.

The US lost hundreds of fixed wing machines fighting a country with barely any air force only a short while later. SAMs are nasty and at the end of Vietnam one in four missions launched against North Vietnam, was SEAD.

I understand what Vince is saying. They just don't have the money. Its hard choice time.

... I bet Boeing is happy they "lost" the JSF Contract!!

[scotthldr]

3 - One of the options being considered is reducing the number of F-35 airframes to be purchased. Another is to pull out of the programme completely. If the decision is to pull out the Royal Navy will have a brand new aircraft carrier (only one, as the second is likely to be built and immediately sold off) with no aircraft to operate from it. In that scenario, one of the options *might* be to convert her to be able to use the F-18.

Vince

I thought one of the carriers " Queen Elizabeth" was to be built as just that, and the second "Prince of Wales" was to be converted to an Amphibious Assault Carrier.

The design of these carriers from the outset was always to have the option to fit catapult and arrestor gear, weather it is during the construction or at a later date.

[Kei Lau]

This latest news makes the most sense.

The Express on Sunday: ROYAL NAVY PILOTS SENT TO TRAIN IN US

The Lockheed Martin-built F-35 is due to be deployed on the UK’s new aircraft carriers. The MoD had previously committed to acquiring the short take-off and vertical-landing version of the plane for the carriers.

However, it is thought that as part of the Strategic Defence Review, the MoD is looking at other options and could buy the cheaper, catapult-launched variant of the F-35 instead. Another indication that defence chiefs will abandon the short take-off version of the F-35 is the development by Converteam of an electro-magnetic catapult system for the MoD.

The contractual decision on what type of F-35 to buy does not have to be made until early in 2011. However, it is thought that a decision could come this year even if no contract is signed.

[Mark M.]

I wouldn't think just going to the navy version would save all that much money.

We're still talking billion dollar technology here.