Turning off electronic devices when taking off

[zerosystem]

I'm just wondering if these handheld devices can cause so much interference to throw off aircraft navigation / communications then why are they allowed to be turned on after take off? A 30 degree error caused by a DVD player seems pretty significant in flight more so than take off.

i've been wondering the same thing myself

[Scooby]

I'm just wondering if these handheld devices can cause so much interference to throw off aircraft navigation / communications then why are they allowed to be turned on after take off? A 30 degree error caused by a DVD player seems pretty significant in flight more so than take off.

There was really two questions in this thread. And I think both have been answered.

1. All devices that transmit or receive signals must be turned off for the duration of the flight. Airlines have now included airplane mode.

2. All devices have to be turned off for take-off and landing so passengers are not distracted. Airline entertainment systems are interupted for passenger announcements so they are permitted.

[fulcrum1]

How many tens of thousands of planes have taken off everday over the last decade and has there been any documented incidents where a flight was in danger, let alone a crash from a electronic device? I have to believe it has more to do with the dangers of taking off and landing and needing the passengers to be ready for instruction and an emergency rather than that one in a gazillion chance that a crackberry causes the electronic devices on a plane to go bonkers and results in the pilots lose of control or a crash.

[NCpilot79]

As a Captain for a smaller regional airline, I can say for a fact that yes, they do mess with some airplanes. The smaller regional jets we operate have magnetic flux instruments in the wingtips that read the earth's magnetic field, and the data is sent to an AIRINC AHARS (Attitude, Heading, and Reference System". The information is used for navigation purposes and is then displayed on our Primary Flight Display and gives us our magnetic heading. I think the problem is that SOME devises, which send and transmit data, will taint the magnetic readings of the magnetic flux instruments. We get an "EFIS COMP MON" caution message when a large desparity exists between the first officer's and captain's instrumentation. They're independent of each other. Aside from being incredibly annoying for us in the flight deck, it could present problems for us on instrument approaches, and on departures. For instance, in Atlanta, it isn't uncommon for them to depart aircraft off the three parallel runways. On the RNAV departures, you fly runway heading for the first 400 feet before the FMS commands the aircraft to turn to it's first fix. Thusly, if we were to depart, and an electronic devise were to cause a 10+ degree heading swing swing, it cold result in a premature turn of the aircraft towards other departing traffic. Imagine if things went to the extreme and two departing aircraft turned towards each other on departure from the parallel runways. This is an extremely dumbed down explanation, but it gets the point across, I believe. The issue for us is that the wings are short, and close in to the fuselage where the passengers sit, and where the signals would originate with the hand held portable electronic devises. It's much easier for the FAA to just say "don't use them", rather than provide a lengthy list why, and on what aircraft, with which devises, it would be a problem.

Regarding the cracking and popping on the radio. We can hear a chirping through the radios on our headsets. It seemed to be WAY more prevalent with I am a spammer....please report this post.. It's super annoying when you are taxiing out at a busy airport with multiple aircraft crossings and hold shorts.

Anyway, sorry if there are any CRJ folks here that read this- a little basic but I'm trying not to write a tech brief here : )

Best Regards,

Eric

:D :D

[KursadA]

As a Captain for a smaller regional airline, I can say for a fact that yes, they do mess with some airplanes. The smaller regional jets we operate have magnetic flux instruments in the wingtips that read the earth's magnetic field, and the data is sent to an AIRINC AHARS (Attitude, Heading, and Reference System". The information is used for navigation purposes and is then displayed on our Primary Flight Display and gives us our magnetic heading. I think the problem is that SOME devises, which send and transmit data, will taint the magnetic readings of the magnetic flux instruments. We get an "EFIS COMP MON" caution message when a large desparity exists between the first officer's and captain's instrumentation. They're independent of each other. Aside from being incredibly annoying for us in the flight deck, it could present problems for us on instrument approaches, and on departures. For instance, in Atlanta, it isn't uncommon for them to depart aircraft off the three parallel runways. On the RNAV departures, you fly runway heading for the first 400 feet before the FMS commands the aircraft to turn to it's first fix. Thusly, if we were to depart, and an electronic devise were to cause a 10+ degree heading swing swing, it cold result in a premature turn of the aircraft towards other departing traffic. Imagine if things went to the extreme and two departing aircraft turned towards each other on departure from the parallel runways. This is an extremely dumbed down explanation, but it gets the point across, I believe. The issue for us is that the wings are short, and close in to the fuselage where the passengers sit, and where the signals would originate with the hand held portable electronic devises. It's much easier for the FAA to just say "don't use them", rather than provide a lengthy list why, and on what aircraft, with which devises, it would be a problem.

Regarding the cracking and popping on the radio. We can hear a chirping through the radios on our headsets. It seemed to be WAY more prevalent with I am a spammer....please report this post.. It's super annoying when you are taxiing out at a busy airport with multiple aircraft crossings and hold shorts.

Anyway, sorry if there are any CRJ folks here that read this- a little basic but I'm trying not to write a tech brief here : )

Best Regards,

Eric

:D :D

Interesting-thanks for your post and first-hand confirmation of the facts.

Edited August 22, 2011 by KursadA

[dgassie]

I've always followed the airline crew's indications and shut off anything I was using.

Once though, while flying in a private plane, the pilot said I could use whatever I wanted, including cell phone. Curious, I asked why the airlines did not permit it. He answered referring so as passengers weren't distracted during the critical take off and landing times. He also said having hundreds of simultaneous cell phone transmissions wasn't the same as one guy using his phone on a private flight.

He also went on to explain the whole emergency crash position thing. That one where you are asked the bend over and stick your head between your legs. He said it was so you could kiss your a** goodbye, since it was probably the last time you'd be seeing it.

Edited August 22, 2011 by dgassie

[Lieuwe]

Back in the eighties when you went to do something outside your house sometimes you wouldn't be able to call people for like 14 hours as you couldn't take your phone outside, texts were written down and then delivered by a vast government run network called "The mail" ..... I don't think we were any worse off. If they ask you to turn it off, turn it off. Their house, their rules.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Lieuwe

[vvac201]

As an air traffic controller, one of my biggest pet peeves are pilots who fly and don't turn off their cell phones!!! "Tower, this is *buzz buzz* checking in *buzz buzz*"!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Jason

[vince14]

He also went on to explain the whole emergency crash position thing. That one where you are asked the bend over and stick your head between your legs. He said it was so you could kiss your a** goodbye, since it was probably the last time you'd be seeing it.

The brace position is primarily designed to keep your head out of the way of any debris that might be coming your way during a crash.

Vince

[dgassie]

The brace position is primarily designed to keep your head out of the way of any debris that might be coming your way during a crash.

Vince

Yes Vince, I understand the real reason. I was just trying to make a funny. Obviously didn't work.

[gonzalo]

I took a brief vacation this past weekend. At the start of one of the flights, the flight attendant told us to turn off all electronic devices. They had to be powered off, not just put into airplane mode. I know this is standard practice, and the fear is that electronic devices will interfere with the planes navigation system (I think that's what I heard once). My question is, is this really necessary? I know the FAA is very paranoid, and I'm not criticizing them for that, but I just wonder how real the danger is.

As a side note, I was once again reminded how much crap people bring on board airplanes.

This is BS. Trust me I am a crew member and we have all sorts of things on all the time all over the aircraft. Not an issue. But rules are rules and you must do what a crew member asks of you so turn it off.

[gonzalo]

No, that article says much more than that: it explains why the emissions from the phones on board are strong enough to be dangerously close to the interference safety margins of the GPS receivers on board.

I notice you talk about "aircraft flying constantly through these frequencies anyway". You are aware that these EM waves are being attenuated (losing power) as they propagate through long distances, right? It is one thing to have an airplane fly through cell phone coverage areas of multiple towers, quite another to have an active transmitter merely feet, or tens of feet, away from crucial systems on the airplane. Of course there are EM waves in many frequencies all around us, but unless we're really close to the emission sources, their power is too low to cause any interference or harm. Signals in radar frequencies are all over us, but nobody in his right mind would set up a tent in front of a high powered search radar. Waves in exactly the same frequencies used by a microwave oven go through the potatoes on our pantry shelves all the time, but their energy level is thousands of times lower than those in a microwave oven. Put those potatoes in the oven though, and waves in those exact same frequencies would cook them in a very short time.

And "a person walking across the floor" does not have a chance of causing the glitch than a PED that might well have inadequate EMI shielding and stray emissions all over the place. Shielding a device against against stray RF emissions is way more complex than simply insulating the wires; otherwise we would't have so many electrical engineers just working on this in the company I work for. Anyway, I don't have the time to argue: the article is out there for people interested in the subject; and does have a good job of explaining the threat with rigorous scientific proof.

With all do respect no way. It is a precaution for safety of passengers to evacuate the plane in case of emergency, not an interference issue. We fly through all sorts of electronic signals all the time. Besides, you are allowed to use your devices in flight and they do not interfere during the cruise so why would all other phases of flight be any different? It's not