Rasmussen's P-36A - Anti-glare panel?

[latormentabritanica]

I'm building the Academy 1/48 P-36A in natural metal finish. I'm doing the markings for LT Phillip Rasmussen's aircraft (#86) from 7 Dec 1941. I've seen this aircraft done without an anti-glare panel painted on the nose, and others with the panel in OD or black. I have two pictures of his aircraft, but both show only the tail section. The USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson has a P-36 painted to look like the one Rasmussen flew, but it doesn't have an anti-glare panel at all. I've seen lots of museum aircraft painted incorrectly, so I'm leaning towards an OD panel.

Anyone have any definitive answers? Thanks!

[Chris D]

The natural metal Grummans should have a bronze green anti-glare panel. The color is actually made from oxidized bronze, thus the name, but for painting purposes, you could use a OD paint darkened with some black.

Chris

[Steve N]

Not to split hairs, but the P-36 is a Curtiss product, not Grumman. Either way, I've been wondering about this one for years myself. As mentioned, the USAF Museum example does not have an anti-glare panel, although they went to the trouble of (correctly) painting the backs of the prop blades maroon, so they obviously did some homework. However, Starfighter Decals' very well-researched "Pearl Harbor Defenders" sheet shows Rassmussen's plane WITH the anti-glare. So who's right?

SN

[latormentabritanica]

Not to split hairs, but the P-36 is a Curtiss product, not Grumman. Either way, I've been wondering about this one for years myself. As mentioned, the USAF Museum example does not have an anti-glare panel, although they went to the trouble of (correctly) painting the backs of the prop blades maroon, so they obviously did some homework. However, Starfighter Decals' very well-researched "Pearl Harbor Defenders" sheet shows Rassmussen's plane WITH the anti-glare. So who's right?

SN

Yeah, I looked at the Starfighter Decals sheet as well, and it gives no explanation as to why there should be an anti-glare panel. I also have photos of Wheeler P-36's from the year prior, which do not carry the anti-glare, but the paint job on the aircraft is entirely different. Aaaaagh, I'm frustrated.

P.S. What's the proper shade for the backs of the prop blades?

[mawz]

Yeah, I looked at the Starfighter Decals sheet as well, and it gives no explanation as to why there should be an anti-glare panel. I also have photos of Wheeler P-36's from the year prior, which do not carry the anti-glare, but the paint job on the aircraft is entirely different. Aaaaagh, I'm frustrated.

P.S. What's the proper shade for the backs of the prop blades?

Might be worth asking the question over on the 72nd Aircraft board, The fellow behind Starfighter decals is a regular poster over there and should be able to answer.

[latormentabritanica]

Might be worth asking the question over on the 72nd Aircraft board, The fellow behind Starfighter decals is a regular poster over there and should be able to answer.

Thanks! I found his profile and sent him a message.

[Starfighter Decals]

What I have been able to turn up on this question is absolutely nothing. Pictures of aircraft that flew during the raid are extremely rare and mostly in private hands (pay me $100 and I'll show you type stuff). The NMUSAF P-36 was painted based on the little info they had. They are not even sure of the Serial Number. I do believe the plane was scrapped after the battle due to the extensive damage the airframe sustained. What I can tell you is that of the photos I have, and have scene of NM P-36s some have the Bronze Green (not black, not OD) anti-glare panel, and some didn't. If I sort them by time, the later dates have the anti-glare. So an educated guess would be that it did. It also seems this particular aircraft was one of only a few still in Natural Metal. I wouldn't believe it if the photo didn't exist. By this time, NM aircraft were hacks and hangar queens. Front Line aircraft were suppose to be in OD 41(Med Green 42)/Gray 43 as of Sept. 1940.

Prop back color is Maroon 18. I think their is a Gunze and a Humbrol color that is close. Keep in mind, colors faded quickly in the hot Hawaiian sun. Part of the argument over the colors of the P-36s and P-40 in T.H. is that they may have been painted Med Green 42/Gray 43 and not OD41. Dana Bell turned up this info when he looked into this many years ago (and has been lost since), and the documents I have from NMUSAF hint at this. But the actual directive hasn't been located again. But the OD 41 turned gray with in 6 months when exposed to strong tropical sunlight due to the breakdown of the pigment and binder. So they may have been re-painted in the field. That should muddy the waters for ya'll.

So when I build my 1/72 Monogram P-36 of Rasmussen's plane, it will have the Anti-glare Panel. I say build it the way you want to, with or without, and let those who argue over the color of bird dropping on Luftwaffe seaplanes deal with it. (and if you think I am joking about that last comment, boy do I have an article to show you!) Chalk it up to one of life's mysteries that may never be solved. (And now someone will produce a color photo of the plane from Dec 8, 1941 for sure!)

[latormentabritanica]

What I have been able to turn up on this question is absolutely nothing. Pictures of aircraft that flew during the raid are extremely rare and mostly in private hands (pay me $100 and I'll show you type stuff). The NMUSAF P-36 was painted based on the little info they had. They are not even sure of the Serial Number. I do believe the plane was scrapped after the battle due to the extensive damage the airframe sustained. What I can tell you is that of the photos I have, and have scene of NM P-36s some have the Bronze Green (not black, not OD) anti-glare panel, and some didn't. If I sort them by time, the later dates have the anti-glare. So an educated guess would be that it did. It also seems this particular aircraft was one of only a few still in Natural Metal. I wouldn't believe it if the photo didn't exist. By this time, NM aircraft were hacks and hangar queens. Front Line aircraft were suppose to be in OD 41(Med Green 42)/Gray 43 as of Sept. 1940.

Prop back color is Maroon 18. I think their is a Gunze and a Humbrol color that is close. Keep in mind, colors faded quickly in the hot Hawaiian sun. Part of the argument over the colors of the P-36s and P-40 in T.H. is that they may have been painted Med Green 42/Gray 43 and not OD41. Dana Bell turned up this info when he looked into this many years ago (and has been lost since), and the documents I have from NMUSAF hint at this. But the actual directive hasn't been located again. But the OD 41 turned gray with in 6 months when exposed to strong tropical sunlight due to the breakdown of the pigment and binder. So they may have been re-painted in the field. That should muddy the waters for ya'll.

So when I build my 1/72 Monogram P-36 of Rasmussen's plane, it will have the Anti-glare Panel. I say build it the way you want to, with or without, and let those who argue over the color of bird dropping on Luftwaffe seaplanes deal with it. (and if you think I am joking about that last comment, boy do I have an article to show you!) Chalk it up to one of life's mysteries that may never be solved. (And now someone will produce a color photo of the plane from Dec 8, 1941 for sure!)

Thanks so much for responding to my message, and so promptly! Thank you for clearing all this up. I will end up painting the panel bronze green then. Artistic license included.

By the way, I wouldn't mind seeing the bird dropping article. It would be a nice laugh!

[latormentabritanica]

P.S. Is this bronze green the same as the cockpit color for the P-47?

[seawinder]

P.S. Is this bronze green the same as the cockpit color for the P-47?

It's close, but darker and not quite so blue. My personal recipe for Bronze Green is to start with 34092 Euro Green and add a little black.

Pip

[Hal Marshman Sr]

latormentabritanica , The P-47 cockpit interior was Dull Dark Green, a reasonable facsimile being Model master Euro I Green, as bottled. Bronze green is as Seawinder said. (Curtiss built P-47s had interior Green, but these birds never saw combat, being used States side as training vehicles.) Hal Sr

[latormentabritanica]

Thanks, guys.

[Starfighter Decals]

By the way, I wouldn't mind seeing the bird dropping article. It would be a nice laugh!

I'll dig it up, scan it, and PM it to you to protect the guilty from the public embarrassment. They are well known modelers. I would have paid good money to have had a video of the incident. But having the article that was printed as a response is good enough.

[latormentabritanica]

I'll dig it up, scan it, and PM it to you to protect the guilty from the public embarrassment. They are well known modelers. I would have paid good money to have had a video of the incident. But having the article that was printed as a response is good enough.

I appreciate the discretion so as to not embarrass anyone, and I look forward to reading the article. Thanks!

[Steve N]

I'll dig it up, scan it, and PM it to you to protect the guilty from the public embarrassment. They are well known modelers. I would have paid good money to have had a video of the incident. But having the article that was printed as a response is good enough.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to make us modelers looks like a bunch of nerds now, would you? ;)

Thanks for the Rassmussen anti-glare info. I'll add one if I ever get around to building the Monogram kit (I already have your decals and resin interior set.)

SN

[ross blackford]

Yeah, you wouldn't want to make us modelers looks like a bunch of nerds now, would you? ;)/>

Thanks for the Rassmussen anti-glare info. I'll add one if I ever get around to building the Monogram kit (I already have your decals and resin interior set.)

SN

:D, Aren't we a bunch of nerds anyway?

,

Ross.