Aigore Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Neither has Sweden....it's been all peachy in Sweden since 1809, thats when Sweden lost Finland to Russia. That was quite a blow really since Finland had been a part of Sweden since the very beginning of Sweden as a nation. But that's history as they say :)/> p.s. There was a saying that went : "Sweden fought to the last Finn" That is that the finns were a great conscription ground and made up a very big part of the Swedish army through the history. Edited May 20, 2014 by Aigore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Wow; The Swiss hasn't fought a war in 200 years ?! With that in mind; It seems that if they bought refurbished Super Hornets from the U.S. to eventually replace their Legacy Hornets, that should be enough. Assuming, of course, that refurbished Super Hornets are much cheaper than brand new Gripens. Or just have their Legacy Hornets refurbished and upgraded. Not sure using refurbished SH's is an option. Typically by the time the USN is done with an aircraft, it's airframe is crapped out due to the high number of carrier launches and traps. Not sure if would be possible, let alone cost effective to refurb them. Maybe if the Swiss would accept high time SH's with a - 0.1G / + 2G limit, we might be able to make them a deal they can't refuse :)/> If they want to play hardball, maybe the USN could throw in a new paint job? Edited May 20, 2014 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) The Swiss Gripen buy isn't intended to replace their F-18s, its to replace their F-5s ... Alsdo, I believe Super Hornets were passed over due to size limitations ... Too big to fit into the hangers, etc ... -Gregg Edited May 20, 2014 by GreyGhost Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-Neu- Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't say that this vote was Gripen specific really. It had more to do with the opposition to ANY fighter deal. A lot of ppl felt the money was better spent elsewhere than on a fighter system. Gripen was the chosen fighter and the vote had nothing to do with that. Such is the workings of direct democracy.... It has its points but I think a representative democracy is more effective in its workings, specially when it comes to making decisions on national security. Ah, I think when your own air force basically said it was the worst of the three options, you're probably not going to win a vote. You won't be able to convince the populace that this is a reasonable expenditure of money when the main user's first statements on the matter are that its the least suited for their requirements. Sure fiscal responsibility is the setting, and there were others, like the unpopularity of the defence minister, but lukewarm buy-in cannot be ignored as an contributing factor. And this is a very serious blow to Saab: it was the really the only true new-build Gripens they had on the order sheet, except for the first few they would build for the Brazilians before they moved production over there. The Swedish AF's are refurbs, which are less valuable from an industrial learning standpoint. Edited May 20, 2014 by -Neu- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 The Swiss Gripen buy isn't intended to replace their F-18s, its to replace their F-5s ... Alsdo, I believe Super Hornets were passed over due to size limitations ... Too big to fit into the hangers, etc ... -Gregg Ah; Good points there. I was just throwing out options, but it looks like they were already considered and turned down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Ah, I think when your own air force basically said it was the worst of the three options, you're probably not going to win a vote. You won't be able to convince the populace that this is a reasonable expenditure of money when the main user's first statements on the matter are that its the least suited for their requirements. Sure fiscal responsibility is the setting, and there were others, like the unpopularity of the defence minister, but lukewarm buy-in cannot be ignored as an contributing factor. And this is a very serious blow to Saab: it was the really the only true new-build Gripens they had on the order sheet, except for the first few they would build for the Brazilians before they moved production over there. The Swedish AF's are refurbs, which are less valuable from an industrial learning standpoint. It's been decided to not use parts from gripen c and go with new airfames since the there would be more airframes to lease. so all 82 would be new airframes including the test aircraft. Saab isn't hurting that bad from this...the order was made by FMV and they are already considering increasing SWAF hulls...might be the entire swiss order in the end. The ones benefitting most are the Brazilians since they now get a lot more say in developing the Gripen NG. Edited May 20, 2014 by Aigore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei Lau Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 The Swiss Gripen buy isn't intended to replace their F-18s, its to replace their F-5s ... Alsdo, I believe Super Hornets were passed over due to size limitations ... Too big to fit into the hangers, etc ... -Gregg The Swiss competition started out with 4 candidates, Gripen, Super Hornet, Rafale and Typhone. Boeing withdrew from the competition early and released a press that they could not meet the number (of aircrafts) requirement at the projected budget. It was a surprise. It is general believed that the Super Hornet is second in cost and size, right behind the Gripen. It also has the advantage of a folded wing. Armasuisse, the Swiss government's specialized arms procurement agency charged with handling the F-5 replacement process, never provided any specific comment on the situation surrounding Boeing's withdrawal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Not sure using refurbished SH's is an option. Typically by the time the USN is done with an aircraft, it's airframe is crapped out due to the high number of carrier launches and traps. Not sure if would be possible, let alone cost effective to refurb them. Maybe if the Swiss would accept high time SH's with a - 0.1G / + 2G limit, we might be able to make them a deal they can't refuse :)/>/> If they want to play hardball, maybe the USN could throw in a new paint job? The Rafale folks tried to match the gripen NG price after the competition selected SAAB but the Swiss stuck to their guns, might have been wise with the Rafale cost escalation in India. Used Eurofighters were floated by a few countries that aren't happy with the operational cost of the EF Typhoon. Another option that has been mentioned is the swiss just don't buy anything and the Swiss Air Force can suffer until the F-18s run out in 2025 and then the Swiss Air Force can be like New Zealand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Emm...right, this is cool if they really pull it off! I suppose they must have been asked at some point I doubt SAAB would do this on their own....with their extensive experience with carrier based aircraft! Get your Google translate warmed up...Sea Gripen is happening! http://mobil.svd.se/c.jsp;jsessionid=E6334372EA147021F0B290B770BD7E22.sonny4?cid=25991131&rssId=&item=http%3a%2f%2fwww.svd.se%2f%3fservice%3dmobile%26amp%3barticleId%3d3750660 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swedeinsiam Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Interesting, they are saying that Thailand are looking for Gripen for our Aircraft carrier. Thailand's carrier is built for Harrier jump jets with ramp and no catapult. Wonder how they plan to start and land the planes. Didn't UK navy say it will cost just as much as a new ship to convert their new carriers to catapult system? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Emm...right, this is cool if they really pull it off! I suppose they must have been asked at some point I doubt SAAB would do this on their own....with their extensive experience with carrier based aircraft! Get your Google translate warmed up...Sea Gripen is happening! http://mobil.svd.se/c.jsp;jsessionid=E6334372EA147021F0B290B770BD7E22.sonny4?cid=25991131&rssId=&item=http%3a%2f%2fwww.svd.se%2f%3fservice%3dmobile%26amp%3barticleId%3d3750660 I think the Sea Gripen is in the same pattern it has been for years "if someone orders it, we will develop it" That seemed to be nothing more than a free advert. Unless my translate is broken... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Latest specs from SAAB on the Gripen E/F...fun reading, just rememeber it´s corporat propaganda, I can´t help but have my doubts about it taking 6 antiship missiles at once (I guess that would be rb15..and they´re not that small and the C/D could only take 2 ;)) GripennNG pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Wut now? Gripen built in India.... linky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Wut now? Gripen built in India.... linky Will India be producing Gripens before Rafale? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Will India be producing Gripens before Rafale? :sunrevolves:/> I thought the Rafale for India was a done deal...since long. I have not a faintest about this....very very odd? I can´t see that Gripen would be produced in India without IAF buing it.....but I guess if IKEA can have manufacturing in India so can SAAB :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Would that be a first? First time aircraft are built in a foreign country that isn't buying that aircraft for their own military? -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 ...oh my...the article has been removed. hoax? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I thought the Rafale for India was a done deal...since long. Oh no its still in contract hell. The Rafale won in India but They can't agree on the specifics. Its been going on for years and india hasn't produced a single jet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Couldn't remember if this had been posted before: http://gripen4canada.blogspot.com/p/it-takes-lot-of-money-to-get-f-35.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Couldn't remember if this had been posted before: http://gripen4canada.blogspot.com/p/it-takes-lot-of-money-to-get-f-35.html I've seen that fanboy site. Doug is a bit slow on the draw. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 http://www.ziuaveche.ro/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Gripen-vs-F-16.jpg Found this, thought it was interesting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Even more interesting :) bigger badder better Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Even more interesting :)/> bigger badder better I'm confused... also this says the NG is 8,000 Kilos, not the 7,000 from the graphic... http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Gripen/Technical%20brochure,%20Gripen%20NG,%20English.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Oh btw....Brazil puts it down in ink Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Oh btw....Brazil puts it down in ink $5.4 Billion for 36. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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