Unglued Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I hear about US air strikes in Iraq in the media, but nothing about Iraq defending itself. Didn't we leave them with any air defense? I know we left them a few helicopters. Seems to me we should've left them a few attack aircraft, and people trained to fly and maintain them. A half-dozen A-10s could make a huge difference right now. Anyone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I hear about US air strikes in Iraq in the media, but nothing about Iraq defending itself. Didn't we leave them with any air defense? I know we left them a few helicopters. Seems to me we should've left them a few attack aircraft, and people trained to fly and maintain them. A half-dozen A-10s could make a huge difference right now. Anyone? If you are talking about air defense, I'm not sure what a half-dozen A-10's would do. If you are talking about the ability of the Iraqi's to conduct close air support, that's different than air defense. Iraq has a dozen or two F-16's on order. A bit overkill for their needs but they insisted. The US tried to persuade them to go with a lower tech solution but they wanted to have a cutting edge force, despite not have any real infrastructure to support those jets. They also have a few Cessna Caravans fitted out with FLIR and Hellfire missiles. Also, it's a bit simplistic to think that if we left them a few A-10's they could have changed the course of recent events. What makes the US so successful in this field is our ISR capability that provides the targeting for our aircraft and helo's. We have a huge network of drones, surveillance aircraft, forward observers, etc, that assist with targeting. The Iraqi's have none of this. You need to crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run. The Iraqi's wanted to go from nothing to fielding a state of the art multi-role fighter. Not a good idea in my book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Yeah, and I believe Russia has given them some Su-25s. I think it comes down to wanting to use them, having the will to defend or perhaps the people in charge are more than happy to let IS control the north...beats having to put up with the Kurds. That place is so jacked up right now with the different muslim factions bickering for control...all of those countries need dictators to keep their simple minds in line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) That place is so jacked up right now with the different muslim factions bickering for control...all of those countries need dictators to keep their simple minds in line. I seem to recall that Iraq had a guy who did a great job of keeping everyone in line. And then someone decided that guy needed to go. It was all downhill from there...... Best we can hope for now is that the Kurds keep their hold on the north, while the rest of the country devolves back into the Shiite vrs Sunni bloodbath that we saw 5-10 years ago. Or maybe we team up with a large rival country to the east that also has a vested interest in a stable Iraq and in crushing ISIS? Edited August 25, 2014 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) I seem to recall that Iraq had a guy who did a great job of keeping everyone in line. Great job? And then someone decided that guy needed to go. probably the methods. It was all downhill from there...... And it was such a nice place before that. Nostalgia, John? Besides, shouldn't this return to the status qou but with lots of little mini Saddam's work out just great? As long as we are playing the "kill who you need to, just leave us out of it" card, what does it matter who or how many are pulling the trigger? Other than the above I have to agree with the above posters. Before we get to the A-10s, lets see if they can get with some of the basics and fight with the equipment they have. Small things. Having said that this looks like its going to get errr interesting... In before first year of uni level Les creativ lecture about how all countries are bad mmmkay. Edited August 25, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) double Edited August 25, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Great job? Note that I never said the previous Grand Poobah was a nice guy, just that he did a great job of keeping the various factions in Iraq docile. My reply was a bit tongue in cheek, I was replying to a previous post. He was obviously a mass murder (as most dictators tend to be) and had a unfortunate yen for invading neighboring countries and yet Iraq itself seemed to be just a bit more stable and peaceful than it has been since his demise. Maybe it's just my imagination. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Yeah, many Iraqis see the tyrant Saddam as more of an angel now. Maliki purposely fudged over his military because he feared a coup. Hussein took over in a military coup, and fudged over his military for the same reason. He separated the branches and micro-managed them. That is the reason they didn't use lateral leadership or attack targets of opportunity during the Gulf War and Desert Storm. Both leader installed "yes men" into general officer positions and few of them were even fit to lead a cleaning crew. The question of providing advanced aircraft has to do with the potential for technology to be compromised and end up in the wrong hands. History shows us that micro-managing a military with poor intermediate leadership is sure to end up in disaster. As far as air defense goes, remember American Ambassador Paul Bremer ordered the Iraqi military disbanded, against advice from the Pentagon and State Department. This is why Iraqi institutions essentially started from the beginning. Edited August 25, 2014 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Note that I never said the previous Grand Poobah was a nice guy, just that he did a great job of keeping the various factions in Iraq docile. Continually suppressed is not "docile" Iraq itself seemed to be just a bit more stable and peaceful than it has been since his demise. Maybe it's just my imagination. it is. You need to really stretch the definition of "stable" and "peaceful" to try and make saddam the better alternative, especially since around 1990. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Starting to sound a lot like politics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Starting to sound a lot like politics. Its history, Saddam is dead, His sons too. Its Ok Iraq we got ya Oh hell! Edited August 25, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Continually suppressed is not "docile" No of course not. However, while suppressed, the various factions were at least somewhat restricted from slaughtering each others women and children. You look at the downside of a murderous dictatorship, I try to find the good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 No of course not. However, while suppressed, the various factions were at least somewhat restricted from slaughtering each others women and children. You look at the downside of a murderous dictatorship, I try to find the good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 No of course not. However, while suppressed, the various factions were at least somewhat restricted from slaughtering each others women and children. You look at the downside of a murderous dictatorship, I try to find the good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I would say something about politics being banned, but instead I'll just post a picture of Leicester City legend Gary Lineker working on a market stall: Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gary Busey Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 The last time I got an "A" on a test, it was for hepatitis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gary Busey Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) double post. deja boom. Edited August 26, 2014 by Gary Busey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unglued Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Yeah, and I believe Russia has given them some Su-25s. I think it comes down to wanting to use them, having the will to defend or perhaps the people in charge are more than happy to let IS control the north...beats having to put up with the Kurds. The people in South Vietnam didn't have enough will to prevail, and neither did most Americans. At the same time, the will to prevail in North Vietnam was unflagging. Sound familiar? Trying to kill all the "terrorists" seems to me to be like trying to kill all the Viet Cong and NVA. All it does is add fuel to the fire and feed the military-industrial complex. Maybe, just maybe, the U.S. learned a lesson in Vietnam that its leaders are using now. Not that I don't like things that go fast, make noise and blow things up. Getting back to the reason I started this thread, I was just curious about what state we left Iraq's Air Force in when we walked out the door. Funny how a simple question like that leads to other interesting stuff ... . I should've Googled the Iraq Air Force before I asked. Wikipedia has a good, fairly up to date history. And here's a link to a recent news article that will save a lot of reading, if you just want the highlights. My link Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Getting back to the reason I started this thread, I was just curious about what state we left Iraq's Air Force in when we walked out the door. Funny how a simple question like that leads to other interesting stuff ... . I should've Googled the Iraq Air Force before I asked. Wikipedia has a good, fairly up to date history. And here's a link to a recent news article that will save a lot of reading, if you just want the highlights. My link Yeah, you should've just used wikipedia! Now their ground based air defense is another story. Go to DSCA's website and look under notifications to Congress as I'm sure they have to keep most of their press releases on pdf. You'll probably find the usual suspects (kratos, locktite, boeing, raytheon, etc) have those sales and contracts for operatos/maintainers. If you ever want to know where the military is or where the real fight is happening just go on dyncorps website and look for their ads that pay the most, lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Sound familiar? not really, no. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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