Jump to content

1/48 CP-140M Aurora -


Recommended Posts

Joel,

Yeah, there's always something for sure!

With the build, the biggest question I have to answer, is whether I want to complete the outside of the fuselage first, or the interior. By that I mean specifically with all the panel lines, access panels, and rivets that'll go in. Sure, it'd be easier to build the interior in sections and assemble the whole thing together, but once the fuselage is together, that's it, there's no getting in there. So dust and crud from making panel lines etc could get in there. There is also the constant handling of the fuselage once it's all together to get it done, and I don't want to risk damaging anything.

On the other hand, if I work on the exterior first, I can avoid all of that, but the finer details will still need to wait until the end of the fuselage construction. Some of the small planning things... that's all.

With time, hahaha.

Cheers,

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 180
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Mark,

For the little detailing I've done to this point, I've always completed the interior sections 1st, then I was able to glue the fuselage halves together. If need be you can tape off all access to the interior if your worried about dirt, dust, etc.

To me the most important part of any build is the exterior unless it's a specifically a contest model build. As it's the exterior that is viewed by my guests or friends, who view it as you would a display taking in the whole, rather then individual areas or sections.

Joel

Edited by Joel_W
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joel,

The exterior will be a huge part of this build. When I get closer to that point, I'll post up some safe pictures showing just how much of a modelers gold-mine the exterior of these aircraft are. Anyone who paints them a single tone of grey will be shocked at just how much change there is in shade, gloss, and patch work. The paint seems to darken with age, so you very easily see any new panels, patch work, etc. There's orange/red PVC under the wings in some areas around the fuel tanks, stains, dents, rivets, panels, exhaust stains on the turtle shell panels over the nacelles, streaks galore... ah, yes, we fly these ladies hard. THAT is something I'm honestly looking forward to.

But, I'm trying not to put one aspect of the model over another. To me, it's the aircraft in its entirety that is important. From the parts and pieces I work on, and other crew members, to the areas that ground crew work on. I want to show it all, as it is so much a team effort.

Yeah, this one's going to be fun, that's for sure!

Cheers,

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Joel,

The exterior will be a huge part of this build. When I get closer to that point, I'll post up some safe pictures showing just how much of a modelers gold-mine the exterior of these aircraft are. Anyone who paints them a single tone of grey will be shocked at just how much change there is in shade, gloss, and patch work. The paint seems to darken with age, so you very easily see any new panels, patch work, etc. There's orange/red PVC under the wings in some areas around the fuel tanks, stains, dents, rivets, panels, exhaust stains on the turtle shell panels over the nacelles, streaks galore... ah, yes, we fly these ladies hard. THAT is something I'm honestly looking forward to.

But, I'm trying not to put one aspect of the model over another. To me, it's the aircraft in its entirety that is important. From the parts and pieces I work on, and other crew members, to the areas that ground crew work on. I want to show it all, as it is so much a team effort.

Yeah, this one's going to be fun, that's for sure!

Cheers,

Mark.

Mark,

I'm really interested in seeing how you handle the various shading and color variations of the panels. That's one aspect to painting that I've not really paid much attention to, other then just the usual overall washes. I've been thinking that a key to this is with masking and doing different colored primers. I've tried that technique with Alcads. I do very little if any pre-shading, but it's a similar process, so it should work. The less masking I can do on the color coats, the better off I feel I am.

Joel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Joel,

Please excuse me as I'm writing this from my phone, so any type-o's are not intended.

My approach was always planned to be the same as my previous builds, and weather it much like a real aircraft. So if something can be removed with a rag and cleaner (like exhaust soot) it would be applied with a brush and powder. The basics (and in no way is this approach reinventing the wheel).

The base colours fade in the sunlight, and it becomes VERY evident of any newly painted panel present on the aircraft. Surprisingly evident. I will do my best to pooat photographs in the near future showing how much.

As a side to this, there are also a very interesting set of circumstances that some of our aircraft have had that leads them to sit with some really odd looking tones to the two tone grey. Anyone who wants to build a Canadian Aurora in the two tones needs to keep in mind that usong just 2 greys and no variance in shades would be doing the same as painting a natural metal finish with only one sheen of aluminum.

To get the skinned look, one thing I saw on old ship models that worked great was using high-heat metal tape. The same stuff used for heating ducts and furnaces. You apply it on like bare metal foil, and then any rivets can be pressed in with a needle. Any popped rivets were just dots of thick glue onto the plastic, and then the foil rubbed on overtop of this. After that, a coat of paint. I feel that this is going to be a very effective approach to skinning this 48 scale model.

I'm going to go through the box containing all the CP-140 items, and thin it down to just what I'll be using. For all I know, it might very well be nothing.

Cheers!

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As mentioned, managed to thin things down. Of the original vac kit, the last two parts that will be kept and used are the fuselage halves... maybe.

The vertical and horizontal stabs along with their respective feathers will be vac formed with the correct shapes, as will the wings. But the question of the fuselage halves comes down to these points:

-removal of the wing roots to correct the errors may warp/weaken the fuselage halves;

-the fuselage is in itself just a long tube, which is easily replicated with a vac form;

-cost/time/effort to create a new fuselage vs. using the halves I already worked on.

I have no doubt that making new fuselage halves with thicker plastic will help with strength, and make attaching the correct wings easier, but is the juice worth the squeeze?

Making a master that has the tube shape is easy. The contours of the nose and tail are not that easy (due to overall size). Alreay having corrected the length of the fuselage halves lends itself nicely, but is the amount of plastic surgery needed at the wings and risking the fuselage bowing aft of the wings better than making them from scratch.

As well, the engine plugs are going to be chucked as well. There's just too much to fix, and so although a pretty penny was paid for them, just not worth the effort to rework them. Spinners and props as well.

Not at all a bad thing though, just a matter of accepting where the start point is.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you thought about grafting the nose and tail onto the vacuformed cylinder? That would give you the strength that you need and save you a lot fo work duplicating the complicated fore and aft sections.

I like what you are doing! I know that whatever approach you decide to take, this is going to be a winner!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

From your last post, you basically restated your original position when you stopped work on the build. The straw that broke the camel's back was the completely, and totally wrong wing root location. I certainly see you valid concerns about decreasing the stiffness of the fuselage once you remove both wing roots. Even gluing new ones will still have that stigma attached to those massive joints. Major Walt suggestion is certainly a valid and realistic option that will also allow you to keep all the forward fuselage work you've done to date.

Joel

Link to post
Share on other sites

You both! You both rock!

So, there is a down side to the cutting of the nose and tail and putting them onto a tube. The tail not so much, but the nose. With the size and weight of the model, and the force on the nose, rejoining the nose section to the fuselage will be very difficult to do right. This is primarily due to the very close proximity of the rear of the nose gear well and the front of the bomb bay. Without being able to reinforce it properly, there's a good chance that it may crack. At the very least, a thin nose section, with a thicker center fuselage section may show a bit of an unwanted oil-can look over time.

BUT! BUT! Here's the great thing! So, rather than cutting the nose sections off, or messing around with reinforcing the joints... you guys! Thank you. Reading your posts, this 2W lightbulb just went off above my head. Same idea - a tube, but having that run a few inches forward and a few inches behind the wing roots. Make a nice tube that matches the internal diameter of the kit fuselage halves. Have those overlap the wing roots and circle the fuselage. Once that nice tube shape is put into play, then the wing roots can be shaved off and filled in exactly as I did with the elevators/horizontal stab roots.

Thank you! This will definitely be the way to go ahead here. It lends itself nicely as the scale thickness of the fuselage does leave a lot of room to play for a thick (even 1.5mm) tube of white plastic to be mounted in.

Okay, we're in business! Definitely!

Thanks guys!

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites

All part of the design process and approach for this build...

...going through the previous suggestions, there is a lot of great news. I went through the books once more, and through all the notes previously made on the build so far. Even though the fuselage will still be split along the traditional way (left half, right half), a nice "tube" insert that goes completely up the side of the fuselage along the wing route lends itself nicely. Rather though than ending this up just pat the wing, it will continue right up to the front of the bomb bay.

As the bulge where the bomb bay is on this vac kit is right out, and the bomb bay doors will be cut open, it works nicely for two reasons. First, it gets rid of the bulge, along with the wing roots. But further to that, the bottom of the fuselage below the wings (just by the nature of how the vac parts were made and no fault of anyone) are paper thin. This leaves a huge risk of the fuselage splitting in the middle. By using a nice 1.5 mm thick tube glued inside the fuselage, this will strengthen and stiffen that area.

There will therefore also be a substantial amount of stiff plastic to glue and secure the bomb bay walls to as well. The downside/upside will be that there will need to be a new brass spar box made. One that matches the actual one closely (flat section in the middle, with angled pieces outside the fuselage "tube"). This tube approach will also allow for an easier way of showing the rounded fuselage section inside the flap wells too! So, it all starts coming together.

I'm just drawing up the last of the first stages of the fuselage (for myself more than anything). I do apologize for the lack of photographs, but really, there is little to picture and show. But, here is the first phase:

1. Start by creating the 1.5 mm tube. I may do this by vac forming, or I may do it by forming them using the hot/cold water approach. The tube will then be glued inside the fuselage.

2. The wing-roots will then be shaved off, and pieces of plastic will be glued back in to fill the gaps created by the missing wing-roots. From here, the fuselage halves will be sanded smooth with superglue and/or filler.

3. With the fuselage completely stripped of anything sticking out, effectively making it just the outer skin, all the windows/doors, hatches will be marked off based on drawings provided for the CP-140 Aurora by Lockheed. This will also include an overlap of the wings and more specifically, the spars.

4. Once the markings have been created, a new spar-box will be fabricated to match the correct dimensions of the wings (chord, dihedral, etc.,).

5. Once the spar box has been fabricated and measured up to the fuselage, the wing areas inside of the fuselage will be stiffened with further layers of plastic.

6. All the appropriate hatches, doors, windows (except for the flight deck) will be cut out to the appropriate sizes.

Sounds simple enough. The down side is that I wont be able to get back at the actual cutting of plastic until about the beginning of November. Talk about a long drawn out process eh?

Well, that's about it for now.

Cheers,

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

Sounds like a rock solid plan. And you make it seam simple enough. But you're fooling me, it will take a highly skilled Vac/scratch builder like you to do all that work correctly and accurately. I'm really looking forward to seeing how you actually go through the entire process.

Joel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Joel, I certainly hope it's a sound plan, hahaha! I hope to be able to keep it simple.

Colin, Thanks my friend! Slow, but I'm going to have fun. But really, I'm no expert or fantastic builder of vac forms. This is the debut of my vacforming, so please cross your fingers for me!

Alright, so a little more of the planning/designing is complete.

The idea of a 3 piece spar section will also help me deal with something missed in the vac form. The bottom of the vac form at the wings has the bottom of the wing flush with the fuselage:

20150104_162852_zps9e3e3bd9.jpg

However, this is certainly not the case. Here's an old CP-140 picture, using the old paint scheme and the better contrast to show the wings being mounted slightly higher up on the fuselage, and a very visible lower portion:

CP-140%20Fuselage_zpshmeeibdt.jpg

This is fantastic from a building point of view as well, because with a real lack of fairings around the wing (it is very sharp below, and fairly sharp between the wing and the curve of the fuselage on the upper parts), there's going to be very little fairing construction required. Great! Life made easy!

Anyway, going over the plans of the CP-140, here's the cross section at the wing with the spar. Honestly, I'm just going to follow the plans, and there's going to be more than enough room for the spar, wing, and bottom of the fuselage:

spar_box_idea_zpstt0t2p3c.jpg

The weight of the fuselage will rest on the top of the centre section of the spar, with the landing gear pushing up on the bottom of the spar in the wings. The bend of 4.3 degrees matches the dihedral of the upper surface of the wing. So, it's combining how the spar in the Aurora is constructed, with the same weight distribution of the first 2-piece spar made.

I will also experiment to see if I can get a single long rectangular box piece of brass bent nicely, rather than connecting 3 individual pieces. This will definitely make constructing the spar box MUCH easier, and will then just need the wings slipped on (think Monograms 1/48 B-29 Superfortress construction method). If I can nail this down to working with a single piece, then heck, that's what I'll be doing for sure!

Cheers,

Mark.

Edited by Aurora Mark
Link to post
Share on other sites

...the going might be slow, and part of that may fall to how I go about with the measurements and design. The images of the prints I post up are simply "paintbrush" images, to share with you guys what goes on with work on paper. I like going back to the ways I did things long ago. A simple ruler, string, calculator, and a journal. All the designing of this kit is done on paper this way. It's not that I'm not a fan of CAD, but as everything is getting referenced to the actual aircraft, and the measurements are down-scaled (where any angles or curves would still be the same in scale), it's both straight forward, and pretty therapeutic. Ratios after all, are still just ratios.

20150925_163515_zpsjiswmxny.jpg

20150925_164812_zpscbgdv3ny.jpg

Whitey, vote number 650 today! Revell Share Your Dream - 1/48 P-3

Cheers,

Mark.

Edited by Aurora Mark
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, always changing... just going over the main wheels/landing gear, and the initial plan of a 3 piece wheel won't work. With the centre of the hubs between each side of the rim hollow, it looks like it'll need to be a brass rim with a resin tire.

More to follow soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting to feel pretty bad about not having any photographs to share with you guys right now. But truth be told, it's all just more numbers on a paper. With another adventure out of country coming up here in a couple days there really isn't much that I will be able to post with regards to building. However, I did try a spare piece of the rectangular brass I used for the spar box, and with just a bit of heat, it bends itself very nicely to the desired angle. So, with that now answered, knowing that the two spars can be single pieces, this definitely makes life much easier.

Once I'm back home, it'll be straight to relaxing with this model for a bit, and at the very least getting the fuselage taken care of just as mentioned above. And then! And then there will be pictures, hahaha.

All the best folks.

Cheers for now,

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Joel. It's fun, but don't get me wrong, already being away from home for this long, I am looking forward to coming back at the end of this one and just relaxing for a while. But, in the mean time, I fly with my ruler and journal, hahaha.

Cheers,

Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 7 months later...

Hey was looking at this build thread and was wondering if anyone has been in touch with Mark?

Cheers

Emil

I forgot about this very cool build. Hope Mark's deployment went well and he is doing ok.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

Can't believe it's been more then 2 years since Mark has checked in. I fear that the build has stalled and he's mothballed it for the time being. That would be a shame after all the effort he's put into it. 

Joel

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

Folks,

 

  My sincere apologies. Due to work and a combination of things, models were hung up for a while. I'll be honest, the months kept adding up and I just didn't have it in me at the time to go into a long winded explanation. But, that was then and here is now. SO! It's been what.... 2 years and still no 1/48 P-3C on the horizon eh? A shame, but this build continues.

 

  I've recently ordered up the CMR and Black Dog sets for the 1/72 Orion kit. I'm going to use that as a platform for the way ahead with this build. Ultimately the goal is to have the CP-140M in 1/48 scale completed, but in pouring over the parts the last few nights, the only real usable thing from the vac form kit is the fuselage as a guide. The wings and everything else will need to be made from scratch. Part of me really just thinks the best way at this would be to scrap the whole ID models kit and go at it right from a wooden mock-up and vac-forming the fuselage from there. BUT, we'll take it one step at a time. First things first, get the new model room built up and start from there.

 

  So, yeah, we're back on!

 

Cheers,
Mark.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...