Classic models GB, need ideas

[Aaronw]

The Matchbox thread got me thinking, it has been awhile since we have had a GB featuring the classic models many of us started off with. Matchbox, Monogram, Frog, Airfix, Revell. Now in the past these have featured rules limiting it to one specific company, or limiting it to tube glue and brushes, no aftermarket etc.

These really don't come around enough to focus on a single manufacturer without dismissing some great but seldom seen models. I'd also like to avoid any gimmicky rules like "only how you built models when you were 12" because they discourage seeing what wonderful models some of these old kits can really be.

So first off, I'm looking for ideas throw them out there.

Personally I'd like to include as many of these makers as possible, but we need someway to limit things. Year of a kit is one way but somewhat artificial. Some kit makers like Airfix have stepped up their game but still have the same feel to their kits (the casual builder seems to be their primary market). Others like Tamiya and Hasegawa you can compare a kit from 1970 and 2010 and they are completely different kind of thing.

Open to the idea of limiting it to specific kit makers, but it needs solid reasoning. Old Hasegawa kits share many of the same attributes as classic Monogram and Airfix kits so I wouldn't want to kick them out just because their modern kits are considered a cut above the rest. British Styrene (Airfix, Matchbox, Frog) on the other hand would be worth considering since it has a logical theme.

A year cut off works, but I'd like to see other ideas.

No limits, out of the box is fine, aftermarket up the ying yang is cool too.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes to what ifs, with the exception they have to be based heavily (75%) on a kit that fits the final guidelines (so no using the tail planes off a Matchbox kit as canards on a recent issue Tamiya F-16). Many of the oddball subjects of these older kits just scream for some what if attention, plus part of the point is fun.

So I need ideas, if there is enough response to form a solid GB idea I can put up a poll to determine interest.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Aaronw

[dnl42]

I like this idea, especially the part about being able to improve the kit and use modern tools. I've got a bunch of the old Hawk Golden Age racers, with, at best, a humanoid blob sitting on a plastic plank to fill the cockpit. I'm personally indifferent to WIFs...but some of the old kits were prototypes dressed up in operational markings. Like the Lindberg F11F,

As for the basis, a year seems best to me. That would enable older Airfix, Matchbox, Monogram, Crown, AMT, Lindbergh kits, as well as their modern incarnations to be included, such as from Revell for Matchbox and Monogram, and Round 2 for AMT, Lindberg, Hawk. A year would also avoid discussions of modern short-run kits.

[nspreitler]

I like the idea. A year cutoff maybe pre-1980 leaves a lot of options and some really nice kits. I would do this, it would be a great reason to do one of the old Monogram kits I have in the stash.

[ikar]

I'd say no later than about 1977. That's about when the Monogram P-61 and DO-335 kits came out which were the start of their more detailed kits.

This way you can get kits from companies like Strombecker with their wooden aircraft to Hubley who made metal cars to pyro and others that you normally would not see being built.

[Don]

I like the idea as well. It harkens back to my simpler early days of modeling in the 70's and early 80's. There are plenty of manufacturers and subjects to choose from, as well as scales. Personally I would like to see OOB except for decals (many of those old kits had terrible decals to say the least and many vintage kits that had half decent decals would probably have said decals shot by now due to simply being old). It would allow us to see just what can be done with some of these old/vintage kits now that many of us have a few decades of building under our belts. But I sense that I would be in the extreme minority in the OOB idea. No harm as I would still participate regardless.

Regards,

Don.

[ajd3530]

Now would it be a straight up nothing made after 77 or 80 or whatever? Or would it be stuff from molds of that era? Perfect example would be I recently picked up the newest release of the Monogram P-40 (packaged in 2011) but the molds themselves are a 1964 tooling.

[Aaronw]

Poking about it appears Frog croaked in 1976, the end of the Lesney era of Matchbox was 1983.

Matchbox only got started in 1973 and since they kind of got this rolling I'd hate to cut them out by ending things too early.

I spent some time looking at the first issue for Monogram kits, and really all I can say is they really were way out in front in the 1960s. They seem to have moved away from their earlier more toylike kits (movable landing gear, opening bomb bays and such) by the mid 1960s. The P40B came out in 1964, the P47D and P51B in 1967. I don't recall these being of any less quality than the B17, B24 and B25 which came out in the mid 1970s. The Do-335 and P-61 came along in 1974.

The last of the Shep Paine dioramas for Monogram appears to be the C47 in 1978. I kind of associate Shep Paine with the classic Monogram era.

I'm personally indifferent to WIFs...but some of the old kits were prototypes dressed up in operational markings. Like the Lindberg F11F,

That is one of the reasons I'm pretty open to what ifs, a lot of these old kits were based on prototypes, guestimates and then some were just weird. If we allow something like Monogram's Flap Jack it seems kind of silly to insist on "purity" by keeping out the what if-ers.

I like the idea as well. It harkens back to my simpler early days of modeling in the 70's and early 80's. There are plenty of manufacturers and subjects to choose from, as well as scales. Personally I would like to see OOB except for decals (many of those old kits had terrible decals to say the least and many vintage kits that had half decent decals would probably have said decals shot by now due to simply being old). It would allow us to see just what can be done with some of these old/vintage kits now that many of us have a few decades of building under our belts. But I sense that I would be in the extreme minority in the OOB idea. No harm as I would still participate regardless.

Regards,

Don.

I understand the idea behind building them as they were done at the time, but personally one of the things I really enjoy with these old kits is doing a little scratch building here and there to spice them up a bit. Many of these kits were very good on the outside and just take a little attention to the insides to bring them up to the standard of more recent kits.

I also hate seeing these older kits being dismissed as not up to par for a serious builder, so any opportunity to encourage someone to make one of these kits really shine is a plus for me.

I would say it is safe to assume if this gets going you will not be the only one building more or less OOB, and that is very welcome.

Now would it be a straight up nothing made after 77 or 80 or whatever? Or would it be stuff from molds of that era? Perfect example would be I recently picked up the newest release of the Monogram P-40 (packaged in 2011) but the molds themselves are a 1964 tooling.

Re-issues should be fine, about the only thing that changes is box art, decals and sometimes the company name. It would be cool to do it with an authentic vintage kit but requiring that can be limiting.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Aaronw

[dnl42]

I hope that it's only about the molds themselves, and not the box that contains them.

[Thommo]

I'm keen. Got a few doubles of some old Matchbox 70s & 80s, I could use one of them.

Or might go online and buy an oldie. Wonder if I can find something really old in 1/32, have never built anything in 1/32.

[worldslaziestbusker]

I'll join in.

I've got some old kits I plan making on making up OOTB and some I want to make into odd variants and what ifs, so I'll have something to work with regardless which way this jumps, but I would like to see folks really bring out the best in some old styrene. Some of the examples in the Matchbox thread are stunning.

[Don]

...Wonder if I can find something really old in 1/32, have never built anything in 1/32.

Matchbox made some half decent kits (for their time) in 1/32. The Lysander, Me-109, Spitfire, and Dauntless comes to mind. I actually have been intrigued as to what can be done with the Dauntless as I have never seen one with my own eyes but have an interest in acquiring one. They would make for impressive projects.

Regards,

Don.

[Aaronw]

I'm keen. Got a few doubles of some old Matchbox 70s & 80s, I could use one of them.

Or might go online and buy an oldie. Wonder if I can find something really old in 1/32, have never built anything in 1/32.

Williams Bros have some neat kits in 1/32, some interwar aircraft and several early racers. I've got their P35 which can be built as a fighter or a racer. Very odd kit, it has a really nicely detailed engine, but a featureless cockpit. You can often find them on ebay fairly cheap. The company was revived a few years ago so a few of the kits are available in new boxes. They would certainly fit the theme.

http://www.williamsbrothersmodelproducts.com/planes.html

Hasegawa and Monogram both have some 1/32 kits from the late 60s or early 70s that can be found at reasonable prices.

[Aaronw]

Ok, so this is what I'm thinking

Cut off date, kit must be made in 1980 or earlier (more recent re-issues of a kit are acceptable).

Aftermarket and scratch building ok, but major conversions may require approval if large portions of the kit are being replaced. An exception being if the conversion is similarly ancient.

What ifs ok, but must be based heavily on a qualifying kit (75%).

Any scale

Any brand

Any material, but must be a kit (includes metal bodied Hubley kits, wood Strombecker kits, balsa and tissue Guillows kits etc)

I'm thinking in the case of wood kits like Strombecker which can be quite collectable (and expensive), the use of duplicate wood parts based on the originals would be acceptable.

Any last thoughts?

Anyone have an idea for a name flashier than Classic models GB?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Aaronw

[dnl42]

That looks good to me!

Let's test some ideas. I suppose that adding a cockpit, rigging, and other details to any of those Hawk, Lindberg, or AMT Golden Age aircraft are all fine. Also, detailing the engines, replacing the solid-disk wheels, and rigging the Lindberg Deperdussin, Martin-Handasyde, and Bleriot monoplane are also fine.

What about the rear fuselage of the Lindberg Avro Biplane? While two(?) examples had a covered fuselage, the Avro Type D typically had an open-frame rear fuselage. Could the kit's solid rear fuselage be replaced with plastic strip structure?

[Aaronw]

I assume you are referring to the major conversion comment.

The idea there is to avoid junking most of the kit and replacing it with aftermarket bits. I wouldn't see an issue with any of the examples you gave. On most of these kits the bulk of the extra detail goes to the engine and cockpit which is largely additional rather than replacement.

I was thinking more along the lines of a transkit where someone might use just a handful of original parts with a modern resin or vacform conversion. Of course if that transkit is from '80 or before then it qualifies anyway.

So given your last example, I wouldn't see an issue unless it got to an extreme. Complete replacement of the wings / tail, motor, prop, wheels and a scratch rear frame? At that point what is left of the kit, a few bits of the fuselage? Detailing the engine, re-building the rear framework and replacing the wheels with something nicer would be fine.

The idea is to ensure the completed model still is more or less what comes in the box.

[dnl42]

Cool! Whar's that poll?

[Kurt H.]

This is a great idea, but as I found with my upcoming GB, getting the rules right is really a challenge. Also is this limited to aircraft? That should be specified.

Then the cut off date should be specified by the first release date of the kit, which will help potential participants, for example you can pick up a monogram p-51d at walmart, but finding an older issue can be harder, and more expensive.

1980 sounds like a good cut off year, because not too long after that, is when modern wonder kits started to appear.

any way, I will be in with a matchbox Stranraer

[SERNAK]

I would say 1984, mainly aircrafts/helicopters in 1/48, with the ability to improve the kit using after-market sets / scratchbuilt details. For example, Matchbox had a decent number of kits in this scale; AD-5, FJ-4B, SH-2F...

[worldslaziestbusker]

Anyone have an idea for a name flashier than Classic models GB?

The Cellared Styrene GB?