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yardbird78

P-51 crash

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I'm beginning to think that not any more surviving Mustangs should be given BBD's markings, the crashes are getting kinda spooky IMHO.

Edited by #1 Greywolf

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I'm beginning to think that not any more surviving Mustangs should be given BBD's markings, the crashes are getting kinda spooky IMHO.

That is a good point.

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I'm beginning to think that not any more surviving Mustangs should be given BBD's markings, the crashes are getting kinda spooky IMHO.

Care to pass some enlightenment on that as I have no clue what you are talking about?

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I believe he is referring to the crash of a P-51 in Britain last year which also carried the name Big Beautiful Doll.

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Anyone who has any idea what fuel capacity these things lift off from the ground with? Half full tanks or something like that? Come to think of it they dont stay up very long do they?

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Anyone who has any idea what fuel capacity these things lift off from the ground with? Half full tanks or something like that? Come to think of it they dont stay up very long do they?

I don't know about privately own warbirds, but if the rules are the same, any GA bird that takes off is required to have a min or 4 hours fuel in the tanks, at least that's the rule....how much it's adhered to is another question.

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I don't know about privately own warbirds, but if the rules are the same, any GA bird that takes off is required to have a min or 4 hours fuel in the tanks, at least that's the rule....how much it's adhered to is another question.

Huh? Who ever told you that? A lot of small GA aircraft couldn't stay up for four hours if you filled the entire fuselage with fuel.

Federal Aviation Regulations Part 91.151 governs VFR flights:

FAR 91.151(a): "=No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions unless [considering wind and forecast weather conditions] there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed: (1) During the day, to fly after that for at least 30 minutes; or (2) At night, to fly after that for at least 45 minutes.

For IFR flights:

§ 91.167 Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather conditions) to—

(1) Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (B) of this section, fly from that airport to the alternate airport; and

(3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed.

(B) Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not apply if:

(1) Part 97 of this chapter prescribes a standard instrument approach procedure to, or a special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator for, the first airport of intended landing; and

(2) Appropriate weather reports or weather forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate the following:

(i) For aircraft other than helicopters. For at least 1 hour before and for 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, the ceiling will be at least 2,000 feet above the airport elevation and the visibility will be at least 3 statute miles.

(ii) For helicopters. At the estimated time of arrival and for 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, the ceiling will be at least 1,000 feet above the airport elevation, or at least 400 feet above the lowest applicable approach minima, whichever is higher, and the visibility will be at least 2 statute miles.

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I don't know about privately own warbirds, but if the rules are the same, any GA bird that takes off is required to have a min or 4 hours fuel in the tanks, at least that's the rule....how much it's adhered to is another question.

Jennings is absolutely correct, there is no requirement for four hours of fuel. I'd be very interested in where you got that "information."

It always amazes me how people can invent rules that don't exist. Back when I was in the USAF and spent some time photographing military airplanes, a USAF Security Policeman told me it was against regulations for me to get the tail number in my photos. More recently, a fellow flying a sail plane was ordered to land, arrested and thrown in jail for violating a "no-fly zone" over a nuclear plant. No such no-fly zone exists. The glider pilot tried to tell them that, but they didn't want to hear it. When the pilot of a police helicopter tried to intervene and tell the arresting officers that as well, they were so certain that there was indeed a no-fly zone that they ignored him too.

Finally lawyers for the Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association got involved. The police then released the glider pilot, but only after he signed a paper saying he would not sue the police.

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...It always amazes me how people can invent rules that don't exist. Back when I was in the USAF and spent some time photographing military airplanes, a USAF Security Policeman told me it was against regulations for me to get the tail number in my photos...

Not to stray off topic, but try photographing trains. Yep trains! Photographing the everyday freight trains that crisscross North America can land you in trouble by some police forces who seem to think that its illegal to photograph train operations from public (NOT railway) property or on private land that you have permission to be on. Its happened to me once where I was grilled and I swear inches from being arrested by a police officer who swore and declared that I was forbidden from taking photographs of a CSX locomotive doing some switching operations from behind a fence in a public park. I guess the latest EMD locomotive or covered hoppers are covered under some national security protection or something. Many fellow railfans have logged complaints of similar hassles.

Anyhoo...back to your regularly scheduled programming... :whistle:...

:cheers:

Don.

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When I was a student at Sheppard AFB 1963-1964, I decided to walk down to the SAC area and see if I could get some pictures of the B-52D's and KC-135's on the main parking ramp. I stood outside the fence and snapped a few photos of some MMS guys practice loading a B-53 nuclear shape. A SSgt Air Police stopped beside me in his squad car and asked for my ID, which I showed him. He called his dispatcher and was told that as long as I was outside the fence, I was doing nothing wrong. A month or so later, I was over at the transient ramp when about 15 F-100's from Cannon AFB landed and taxied in to park. I wandered around there for awhile taking pictures until a crew chief finally told me that I PROBABLY should not be doing that and suggested that I leave. I did. It turned out that they were there to load up for a live fire demonstration at Fort Sill, Oklahoma the next day.

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Huh? Who ever told you that?

I'd be very interested in where you got that "information."

Way back in ancient times 1973 when I was learning to fly....the folks at the local airport (Alamagoogoo, NM)...pilots and mechs inferred that no matter if I was just practicing local or going XC I had to have 4 hrs fuel in the tanks. I didn't know any different I was too busy trying to learn and not kill myself or my instructor to question what I considered sage folks about fuel requirements.

Edited by #1 Greywolf

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Clif, I fully understand why they told you that. It never hurts to have full tanks as a student pilot, especially on cross countrys. I know of many flight schools that have a full tank policy. They should have told you why they said that, unfortunately they failed in that respect.

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I can't tell you how many aircraft that fly daily couldn't make it 4 hours even with EFTS! My dad owned a Piper Cherokee, no way you were getting 4 hours out of it.

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Way back in ancient times 1973 when I was learning to fly....the folks at the local airport (Alamagoogoo, NM)...pilots and mechs inferred that no matter if I was just practicing local or going XC I had to have 4 hrs fuel in the tanks. I didn't know any different I was too busy trying to learn and not kill myself or my instructor to question what I considered sage folks about fuel requirements.

Now it makes sense, it was local policy that you assumed to be an FAA rule. A flight instructor I know was involved in an accident in which his student did the preflight on the Cessna 152 and assured the instructor there was plenty of fuel in the tanks. The instructor took him at his word, and sure enough less than an hour into the flight they ran out of gas and had to glide down to a farm field. The FAA was not amused. The instructor now double-checks the fuel no matter who he's flying with.

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Now it makes sense, it was local policy that you assumed to be an FAA rule.

I'm really beginning to hate that word assume....when you syllabilize* (sp) it make well you know :whistle: . Thank you J and Scott..after all these years someone finally sets me straight; at least my instructor trained me well I'm still alive :yahoo:

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I'm really beginning to hate that word assume....when you syllabilize* (sp) it make well you know :whistle:/> . Thank you J and Scott..after all these years someone finally sets me straight; at least my instructor trained me well I'm still alive :yahoo:/>

Maybe you've heard the old saying that there's nothing more useless than the altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the gas you didn't put in the tanks. Clif, do you still fly?

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Maybe you've heard the old saying that there's nothing more useless than the altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the gas you didn't put in the tanks. Clif, do you still fly?

Yup I've heard that on numerous occasions...and do I still fly, yes/no when I finish a build I fly it around the room before placing on the shelf, as far as the real article..well I haven't been at the controls for quite a long time.

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