158th Slave Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Having been there at the very start (158th) and have experienced the the ethos, I would like to say a few words. I read this site, a site for kit building but notice a trend for either members of this site requesting information or members posting information of the topic Night Stalkers.You ask or volunteer information on training methods, evolution of tng methods or TTP's specific to mission. While I admire the research acumen posted here, it is my opinion that information creates intelligence. Folks, if you notice my user name 158th Slave, the Slave simply means slave to secrecy as per my debrief leaving the Unit years ago. People can talk about training and operational issues I guess but remember, folks, good people, died for the mission. Many died horrific deaths along side their customer brothers. I can say I knew many personally and the folks I knew on a personal basis, beyond professional would never be on this site volunteering information. So that said, I will hopefully put a few issues to bed in the following... Way back when, Men worked hard and still do. Things were smaller - everyone just about knew everyone by their first names. Somewhere in the evolution of Special Operations, a few have taken it upon themselves to go beyond the pale of what is sensitive and what is not without regard to their Bro's. I guess these Dudes seek fame or money, I do not know but it feels to me to be just wrong! There exists a Night Stalker Association. Join it if like. I hear it's kinda awesome and they do alot of good for NSDQ families. If you have questions concerning mission, perhaps they can direct you in vetting out questions you may have. Look, I do not intend this to be a lecture but questions concerning past or present operational members are best left out of public forums. I have yet to read anywhere why it is important for those outside of NSDQ history, to know who is or who is not SOF. Take a walk in Arlington, you may find answers there. Go to an association meeting if that is in your interest. Posting questions of a sensitive nature or answering them, regardless of SOF affilliation let alone military, is a dis-service to those heros that either died in mission profile or currently slave to the mission. STFU! NSDQ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FM-Whip Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Having been there at the very start (158th) and have experienced the the ethos, I would like to say a few words. I read this site, a site for kit building but notice a trend for either members of this site requesting information or members posting information of the topic Night Stalkers.You ask or volunteer information on training methods, evolution of tng methods or TTP's specific to mission. While I admire the research acumen posted here, it is my opinion that information creates intelligence. Folks, if you notice my user name 158th Slave, the Slave simply means slave to secrecy as per my debrief leaving the Unit years ago. People can talk about training and operational issues I guess but remember, folks, good people, died for the mission. Many died horrific deaths along side their customer brothers. I can say I knew many personally and the folks I knew on a personal basis, beyond professional would never be on this site volunteering information. So that said, I will hopefully put a few issues to bed in the following... Way back when, Men worked hard and still do. Things were smaller - everyone just about knew everyone by their first names. Somewhere in the evolution of Special Operations, a few have taken it upon themselves to go beyond the pale of what is sensitive and what is not without regard to their Bro's. I guess these Dudes seek fame or money, I do not know but it feels to me to be just wrong! There exists a Night Stalker Association. Join it if like. I hear it's kinda awesome and they do alot of good for NSDQ families. If you have questions concerning mission, perhaps they can direct you in vetting out questions you may have. Look, I do not intend this to be a lecture but questions concerning past or present operational members are best left out of public forums. I have yet to read anywhere why it is important for those outside of NSDQ history, to know who is or who is not SOF. Take a walk in Arlington, you may find answers there. Go to an association meeting if that is in your interest. Posting questions of a sensitive nature or answering them, regardless of SOF affilliation let alone military, is a dis-service to those heros that either died in mission profile or currently slave to the mission. STFU! NSDQ... We are civilians - we can ask what we want, when we want. Nobody is forcing anybody else to answer with secret information. Your SOF boat is leaky, from the very top, especially when the public image needs to be burnished a bit and/or funds are needed. The "quiet professionals" are not always so quiet. BTW, some of the TF plank owners are on this forum. And they use their real names... John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 What did I miss? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 What did I miss? There are some pretty unique threads over on the helo forum, some of which have personal pics and info provided by 160th SOAR veterans. Most of the stuff is from the early days and since the first few years of the 160th were not very well documented, it's pretty special. Nothing that (IMHO) presents any threat to current day soldiers. There is also a thread with a single pic of a very rare helo that was very likely assigned to a unit which has truly been in the black world since it's existence. It should be noted that this picture was obtained from an open source website by another ARC'er. As far as the OP goes, I agree with John Hairell 100%. Also, this guy is way off base by insinuating that the 160th vets noted above are putting their comrades at risk, especially crappy when he insinuates they are doing it for fame or money. If they truly were doing this for fame or cash, I'm guessing that posting some info on an obscure modeling website probably won't further their cause to any real extent. I've asked these gents questions that I was pretty sure would involve OPSEC (hey - you never know it's off limits until you ask) and I either never received a response or was flat out told that it can't be discussed. I'm pretty damned sure these guys are aware of OPSEC issues when they post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Exhausted Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Maybe the OP is social engineering for info, or maybe he's a plumber trying to stop a leak. I just saw All the President's Men so I had to make the reference :D Edited March 31, 2016 by Exhausted Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) There are some pretty unique threads over on the helo forum, some of which have personal pics and info provided by 160th SOAR veterans. Most of the stuff is from the early days and since the first few years of the 160th were not very well documented, it's pretty special. Nothing that (IMHO) presents any threat to current day soldiers. There is also a thread with a single pic of a very rare helo that was very likely assigned to a unit which has truly been in the black world since it's existence. It should be noted that this picture was obtained from an open source website by another ARC'er. As far as the OP goes, I agree with John Hairell 100%. Also, this guy is way off base by insinuating that the 160th vets noted above are putting their comrades at risk, especially crappy when he insinuates they are doing it for fame or money. If they truly were doing this for fame or cash, I'm guessing that posting some info on an obscure modeling website probably won't further their cause to any real extent. I've asked these gents questions that I was pretty sure would involve OPSEC (hey - you never know it's off limits until you ask) and I either never received a response or was flat out told that it can't be discussed. I'm pretty damned sure these guys are aware of OPSEC issues when they post. That's what I get for not visiting that forum enough. My experience wit the 160th and pictures was to ask first. I was actually surprised how much they let me see and didn't mind pictures. The one thing they didn't like was cockpit shots and some of the helos had newer IR suprressors, they said no beauno. But I was still allowed to see things even then Edited March 31, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Having been there at the very start (158th) and have experienced the the ethos, I would like to say a few words. I read this site, a site for kit building but notice a trend for either members of this site requesting information or members posting information of the topic Night Stalkers.You ask or volunteer information on training methods, evolution of tng methods or TTP's specific to mission. While I admire the research acumen posted here, it is my opinion that information creates intelligence. Folks, if you notice my user name 158th Slave, the Slave simply means slave to secrecy as per my debrief leaving the Unit years ago. People can talk about training and operational issues I guess but remember, folks, good people, died for the mission. Many died horrific deaths along side their customer brothers. I can say I knew many personally and the folks I knew on a personal basis, beyond professional would never be on this site volunteering information. So that said, I will hopefully put a few issues to bed in the following... Way back when, Men worked hard and still do. Things were smaller - everyone just about knew everyone by their first names. Somewhere in the evolution of Special Operations, a few have taken it upon themselves to go beyond the pale of what is sensitive and what is not without regard to their Bro's. I guess these Dudes seek fame or money, I do not know but it feels to me to be just wrong! There exists a Night Stalker Association. Join it if like. I hear it's kinda awesome and they do alot of good for NSDQ families. If you have questions concerning mission, perhaps they can direct you in vetting out questions you may have. Look, I do not intend this to be a lecture but questions concerning past or present operational members are best left out of public forums. I have yet to read anywhere why it is important for those outside of NSDQ history, to know who is or who is not SOF. Take a walk in Arlington, you may find answers there. Go to an association meeting if that is in your interest. Posting questions of a sensitive nature or answering them, regardless of SOF affilliation let alone military, is a dis-service to those heros that either died in mission profile or currently slave to the mission. STFU! NSDQ... Wow......after reading this, I'm almost afraid to ask for the secret formula for Coca-Cola...... :blink: IF you think that sensitive information is getting posted to this site, maybe you should contact that person via PM and ask them about it instead of starting a thread in order to go ballistic potato. As someone who held a Top Secret/SCI clearance during my time in the Army, I am well aware that, on occasion, someone my ask something that may drift too close to Military Never-Neverland, and I would reply that is something I can not divulge further into. I haven't seen any instances of someone going to close asking for something that would be listed within the pages of the Presidential Book of Secrets, and I have faith that former Night Stalkers know their limits when it comes to showing too much. Besides, the proper FS # for an AH-6 that flew in Operation Just Cause in 1989 isn't going to piss off an Al Queda/Taliban/Ishole operative. Besides, what is the award for divulging sensitive information on ARC.....a half used bottle of Testors Model Master Insignia Yellow paint? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Wow......after reading this, I'm almost afraid to ask for the secret formula for Coca-Cola...... :blink: Dude careful :unsure: !!! I mean do you WANT a visit from the red car with the white stripe and the guys wearing the polar bear and Santa suit? You don't want to mess with those guys. Shhhh... :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) TF 160--160Th SOAR is not so secret anymore. Somalia took care of that. While I have never been in a SOF unit, I'm sure the "oath of secrecy" (wink, wink) pertains alot to actual missions and the customers, along with any kind of stealth AC used. The 160th SOAR went out of their way recently to accomodate pictures being taken by pulling out all 3 AC used by the unit so they could be photographed by civilians, mind you. Except for cockpit and sensitive avionics, the guys had total access to them. The S-2 went over the pics and redacted the ones they didn't want to world to see. Times are different and it's different in the SOF world as well. Although there will always be hush, hush it's classified stuff going on to include the 160th, the unit has changed in that their persona is more open to the eye of the public. If former and current guys want to let us peek into the world of spec ops aviation by talking about the aircraft or their time in the unit, so what. You're talking about combat SOAR pilots who are grown up and know how to keep things quiet when needed including their mouths. I can just about guarantee that there are things they did we will NEVER know about and it will go to the grave with them and rightly so. 158th slave, while I admire your oath to secrecy and by the way, thank you for your service, relax bro! We are modelers gaining info to make our models look like the real thing, not planning a terrorist attack or selling info to China! Tim Edited March 31, 2016 by hawkwrench Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adamitri Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Dude careful :unsure:/>/> !!! I mean do you WANT a visit from the red car with the white stripe and the guys wearing the polar bear and Santa suit? You don't want to mess with those guys. Shhhh... :D/>/> Thats funny right there... Edited March 31, 2016 by adamitri Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Ted Striker: My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar. Elaine Dickinson: When will you be back? Ted Striker: I can't tell you that. It's classified Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Having played for Team America...I understand his concern, and I myself am careful not to ask certain questions in open forum, however I agree he should take up his concerns with those folks involved...I hate to use this term but he is in a sense stereotyping all of ARC as blabber mouths, spewing sensitive classified info on a bulletin board...NOT SO. Some come here harvesting e-mail addresses, but the kind of info he's concerned about;found here would't fill the bottom of an eyedropper. There are no loose lips here, sinking ships. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Just to hopefully close out this somewhat unfortunate thread, I hope 158 will consider apologizing to the two 160th vets / ARC contributors he went out of his way to disparage. Totally uncalled for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Just to hopefully close out this somewhat unfortunate thread, I hope 158 will consider apologizing to the two 160th vets / ARC contributors he went out of his way to disparage. Totally uncalled for. Agreed!!! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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