Janissary Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Finally a two-seat Sukhoi! HB Su-30MKK & Caracal decals. Workbench, drawers, cupboards, carpet all cleaned: Caracal Decals. I will be doing a line-jet (Option 2). The online reference page seen in the instructions provides those additional options' details: I have collected quite a bit of reference photos and videos. Most airframes seem rather clean, but as seen below some are starting to weather deliciously: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 There are quite a few reviews of this kit, but here are a few more: Cockpit details look good to me: The exhausts will need some detailing: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 The Su-27 family looks very impressive when in flight so that's how I am planning to display it. I am looking into bending acrylic rods, stands. I have firmly decided that the rod will have to be bent into a 'C' rather than stick straight up from the base. So some extra work will be there. Other than the above decals and a pair of seated pilots (still need to acquire), I don't plan on having any other AM. I have a few questions about ordnance and engine intake ramps, but I hope to get to that after I start cutting plastic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 My god!! you should have started this two months ago so I could have used your build as reference and target! I'm really looking forward to follow your work! I have some pics taken by a couple of friends there, you might be interested in! if so let me know and I can send them your way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Quote I have a few questions about ordnance and engine intake ramps I don't know what your questions are but I think these pics can help you! And a pic of your bird's tail! These pictures are posted here only for illustration purposes! credits the the authors! Hope that helps Jannissary! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Thank you so much for these pictures, they will certainly be very useful. I did not have any of them before. I'm quite stoked about this build. Yesterday I got rid of all landing gear parts so there is no turning back from an in-flight display :) Also, I started part cleaning and scribing. I have to say the kit is actually pretty good but the plastic is different than what I am used to. Not good or bad, just takes some practice to get accustomed to its response to the scriber and sanding sticks. One more note about this build. I decided to clean, rescribe, assemble and paint most of the parts that usually come at the end (engines, slats, tails, pylons, ordnance etc.). So, I will not get to the cockpit or the main fuselage after all those little bits are done. This is because I have experienced a lack of motivation to finish some other models when the main big chunks are done, but still I have to clean and put together all the extra stuff. Overall, I am loving it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 If you're starting there maybe this pics of the slats can help you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Madhatter Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Wow - that's a really cool picture! Where do you find these pictures? I'd like to see more of them Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a4s4eva Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 On 7/4/2017 at 2:21 PM, Janissary said: The Su-27 family looks very impressive when in flight so that's how I am planning to display it. I am looking into bending acrylic rods, stands. I have firmly decided that the rod will have to be bent into a 'C' rather than stick straight up from the base. So some extra work will be there. Other than the above decals and a pair of seated pilots (still need to acquire), I don't plan on having any other AM. I have a few questions about ordnance and engine intake ramps, but I hope to get to that after I start cutting plastic. I've started a A-4 in flight. I had a mate mill a square on the rod and built a box section under the wing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Thank you all for your help. Calum, what size is your rod (whaaaaa)? I just got a 3/8" but looks too thin. I am thinking at least 1/2" will be necessary for the heft of the Su-30. Now you're going to tell me yours is all metric and I will need to do the conversion. Also, did you bend it yourself? If so, what did you use to heat it up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) Hi Jannisary, Use a DIY heat gun, just dont over do it. Plexi can be bent around 150-170 C if I remeber right. Make a template for bending it, to protect the plexi surface from damage we us a special textile which leaves no marks. The textile is duvetine ( I think this is the English name of it) or duffel. I remember that all the templates for the real Mi-8 /Mi-17 and Mi-24 plexi during manufacturing were covered with this material. And it works!! We used it for small scale things in model making too. If you overheat the plexi it will be damaged. Trial and error is the way. Best regards Gabor Edited July 6, 2017 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Thank you very much Gabor. I am hacking through the parts nowadays. I had a question for the experts about the loadout (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10425299/60/3): I am looking for an inflight loadout that is possible, and hopefully plausible. Could be for a PR demo to. Does the following fit the bill?: (1) R-73 (2) R-77 (3) R-27R (4) Empty (pylon only) (5) KH-31 (6) Empty (pylon only) (7) Empty (pylon only) (8) KH-31 (9) Empty (pylon only) (10) R-27ER (11) R-73 (12) ECM Pod If not, can you suggest a config that uses the above ordnance? Also, I can't generalize but in many of the armed Su-27/30 pics I have seen, Stations 4 and 9 tend to be empty (unless fully loaded). Not always, but I have seen enough of a pattern. Is this true and if so, is there a reason for this? I have a follow up question on the pylons, but I'd like to ask that once I can sort out the ordnance with your help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I'm no expert Janisary and I don't know about configurations but I do have a couple of pics that might help you Posted for illustration purposes! credits to the authors Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I would say it all depends on the type of mission that you prepare your kit. Have no idea why they don’t use the pylons next to the fuselage. Although you have to know that usually the different pylons or to be more precise the stations on the wings and fuselage are wired for certain type of ordnance. It is not a free for all type of situation where you hang whatever you want, wherever you want on the aircraft. One can see this in museum aircraft, at shows, presentations where they want to show as much as possible, but for a real life mission it is different. One thing is for sure, you would have the R-73 for the wing tip stations or the EW pod. But they will be in pairs! No way missile on one wing tip and pod on the other one. One thing is balance of the aircraft but the other important part is that the pods come in pairs for an aircraft and they have different electronics in the left and right pod. Only the two in unison form a full countermeasure fit. Station 2 and 11 is usually reserved for R-73. I would not expect a mix here of 73 and 77! The official numbering of the stations is a little different from what you have there but for a kit it has as little importance as do the different black boxes inside the aircraft for a plastic kit! :)))) The only place where it is important is when you add the decals. I don’t know about the kit decals but the excellent sheet from Begemot with full stencilling for Su-27 gives the correct station numbers and decal to identify them. In the end it all depends on what you want to show with your kit. If there is a photo of a given aircraft at a whatever occasion and you take that as a basis for your kit then go ahead and do it that way!!! If anyone asks what is it all about show them the photo. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alex R Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 I am dealing with the same issue for my Chinese MKK. I would agree with Gabor that EW pods should be in pairs. As for the mixing 73 and 77, here is a photo showing such a mix (albeit this is a training loadout). And an Indian MKI actually shows an R-77 on the #2 station - granted, this is a different aircraft version manufactured by a different producer, but still. Hope this helps. Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Kike, Gabor, Alex, thank you so much for this info and the pics. It's great to learn new things with input from experts like you. I could have sworn I had seen ECM pods on one side only but after reviewing everything I have and more, it seems to be all in pairs. This may not be final, but I think I am changing my plan to: (1) ECM pod(2) R-73(3) R-77(4) R-27R(5) KH-31(6) Empty (pylon only) ....and symmetrical from there. The only pic I was able to find with R-77 on #2 is the following: Looks to be an early demo (aircraft and R-77), so it is very possible that #2 is not wired for R-77 like Gabor said. Thank you all again for your input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Hi Alex R Under „pairs” I mean that the same ordnance is used on opposite sides of the aircraft. It does not mean that a mix of Air to Air missiles is not possible. Of course it is possible and we see it every day on aircraft both in the West and East. Different AA missiles are designed for differing tasks with different seeker options and this makes the weapon system of a given fighter complete. See the recent incident between the F-18 and Su-22. So to have an R-73 and the RVV-AE (or R-77 if you like) side by side is completely normal, but they would be in pairs on opposing sides of the aircraft, same station. As for the exact numbering of stations or a hint of what can be used in a given position can be found in Sukhoj or KnAAPO publication both in print and on the net. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Quote Just before I forget, the piece over the fron IP shown on this pic is for a SU-27 the Su-30 uses a defferent one, I don't know if your model has the right one but I wanted to point it out in case you want full accuracy. Academy offers both but the right one is the one on the left And this is what Wolfpack offers And this is the real deal! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Thank you very much for these pictures, they are very useful. I added a few details to the exhaust nozzles. The petals were too bulbous, so sanded them down flatter, and added a few details: Original (left) and modified (right) nozzles: I got the Aerobonus pilots. Quick test and it looks like they will fit without any issues: Deepening the rivet and panel line details. Before clean up (left) and after sanding/clean up (right): So the intakes will need some work. The kit was designed for the intake ramps to be down, but as mine will be in flight, I will need to clean all that up: Overall, I have to say the parts fit very well. The plastic is somewhat softer than Tamiya / Hasegawa types, but not in a bad way. Just different. I cleaned up and placed the two fuselage halves. The fit is incredible! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Janissary, regarding the rods, you can use plexi rods but it is important not to exposure it on to high temperature. If so, there could small bubbles of gass appear inside the rods. I used it for my Su-33, bending tchem just in boiling water, using shaft of the pestle as template. I do believe rods coming from engine exhaust to base could look really nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Great job on those cans Jani! those pilots look really nice! I thought about them but didn't want to hide the resin cockpit! I'd love to have a standing one tho! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 19 hours ago, Solo said: Janissary, regarding the rods, you can use plexi rods but it is important not to exposure it on to high temperature. If so, there could small bubbles of gass appear inside the rods. I used it for my Su-33, bending tchem just in boiling water, using shaft of the pestle as template. I do believe rods coming from engine exhaust to base could look really nice. Thank you Solo. Indeed I have been inspired by your build, I think you had posted it in the Display or Critique corner. I was thinking of attaching the curved rod into a ole at the bottom, but now looking at yours again, coming out of the exhausts may look even better. 15 hours ago, kike said: Great job on those cans Jani! those pilots look really nice! I thought about them but didn't want to hide the resin cockpit! I'd love to have a standing one tho! Thank you! It's really a fun kit. Just real life gets in the way more than I wish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 Working on the intakes. I smeared Bondo to the entire intake and cleaned it with steel wool under running water. Below, before and after: I am trying to figure out two things. I would appreciate any help: (1) The color of the intakes: From what I could gather, it seems to be neutral gray, I have seen Gunze H-57 in Eduard's Su-27 instructions for instance. Is this roughly correct? (2) Intake FOD mesh: So I am posing this inflight, subsonic. The intake ramps will need to be in the open position (retracted up?). But is there a FOD mesh on the 30MK2s, and if so do they always stay in place screening the intake? Going off of https://vvsmodelling.com/tag/cockpit/ : "....After that is done, insert auxiliary intakes at the bottom (closed if doing a bird on the ground, open (ribbed in this case) if doing her in flight), and paint the intakes with some neutral Grey colour." Also these: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=21176 https://www.quora.com/Is-it-feasible-for-Su27-to-have-titanium-intake-grill-to-prevent-FOD But still unclear if/how the mesh extends in flight. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The intake inside is dull metallic colour, the same paint as used on engine side panels. This is the official version. In real life there are many which have a basic yellowish primer on the intake walls. Eduard instruction The intake mesh is in down position during flight, it has no function what so ever in flight. On the ground with engine running it is in up position to filter out any FOD from the air ingested through the intake and the auxiliary intake on the bottom of the intake. How the mesh is made is interesting. The production of the intake mesh is not a secret and it has been shown in detail. It is not made of wire or anything like it. It is produced from a sheet of titanium and electric etching is used to produce the holes in it. Just like the etching used in making the tools for our plastic kits! It is also interesting that originally for the Su-35 the mesh was deleted from the design, but as always life and service experiences have shown that there is still a need for it. So last year based on experiences during service trials the mesh was reintroduced for the new Flankers also during upgrade along with many other modifications. The mesh is left in its original titanium colour. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 Thank you Gabor. Very good info as usual. So, like the Su-27, the FOD mesh would be laid flat (retracted) on the lower intake trunking when in flight, correct? I just figured, opposite to Mig-29, Su-27 mesh pivots at the bottom of the intake trunking. Using the kit parts (plastic, not PE) it will be very difficult to do that without creating a noticeable step when looking down the intake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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