Don Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Hello all, I am working on a USS Kitty Hawk model and trying to decide what timeframe I want to model her in. So I've been pouring over the internet looking at literally 100's of photo's. I came across this one dated 1991-08-09: You can clearly see the unmistakable lines of an F-4 Phantom to the left of the line of Hornets and in front of an A-6 on the bow. As far as I can tell the last USN F-4 Phantom to launch from a carrier was in 1986 aboard the Midway. The last landing of a USN F-4 also took place in 1986 aboard the America. The last USN reserve units retired their Spooks in 1987. The Marines retired their last F-4S in 1992 but I can't find where they were onboard the Kitty Hawk on 1992-1992. So, if the date of the photo is accurate (and it seems to be based on the other aircraft on deck and their camouflage schemes), then why is this lone F-4 on deck? If the date is inaccurate...then can anyone guess as to the timeframe? I am thinking of modeling this scene as it combines F-14's, F/A-18's, A-6's, Vikings, Hawkeye's, Sea King, and of course the F-4...a very cool collection of aircraft together on the same deck (just missing A-7's which were retired from fleet Squadrons in May 1991...further credence to the 1991 date). Link to source: http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/CVW/Carrier-Air-Wing-15.htm Thoughts, opinions? Thanks and regards all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 That’s Very Strange....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On that website it shows the same picture at the top from a different angle dated 1992. Below lists a timeline for the Kitty Hawk. If it was August of '91 then it was during exercises and qualifications on the East Coast. The ship needed to be modified during SLEP to accommodate the Hornet and it was also involved in RIMPAC and JTF Operation Restore Hope in '92 so a '91 date seems likely. https://www.greatsoutherncoverco.com/pages/uss-kitty-hawk-cva-63-later-cv-63-1990-2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1991, other pictures on the seaforces website show it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 https://www.history.navy.mil/content/dam/nhhc/research/archives/command-operation-reports/ship-command-operation-reports/k/kitty-hawk-cv-63-ii/1991.pdf Read the above for context. I enjoy sleuthing.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) All fantastic stuff! I love reading material like that. But no mention (that I read) of F-4's or an F-4 being on the KH in 1991-1992 nor was one listed on the aircraft embarked roster on page-12 or 13 of the above document ^^^. So the mystery deepens...why is an F-4 clearly photographed on the KH's deck in 1991? Or did I miss something? I have been stymied by this all day so its possible I missed something. Thanks for the interest and help! Regards. EDIT: Wait, so its essentially a hack aircraft/hangar queen/training type airframe? They'd really haul a gutted aircraft out to sea? Does this happen during other SLEP sea trials? I've never heard of this before. Interesting! EDIT #2: It would explain the tow bar mounted to the nose gear in the first photo in my initial post as the F-4 would be powerless.. Still... very interesting. I learned something. ...And I'm putting that Phantom on my Kitty Hawks deck Edited July 22, 2018 by Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 That Phantom is an aircraft handling trainer. I believe that picture was taken while the ship was transiting to the west coast from the east coast and they are hauling it to San Diego with them. CVW-3 took the Kitty around the horn (from the east coast to west coast) after it finished SLEP and some of those F-18's look to belong to VFA-37. It was common to haul stuff when a carrier was transiting from one port to another. Given the configuration of the aircraft on the flight deck and the flight deck antenna's it appears that the ship is preparing to conduct an underway replenishment, which would mean that they would clear out the hanger deck as much as possible, hence the reason why the F-4 is parked on the deck. BTW, that command history report isn't totally accurate, it lists VF-14 and VF-32 F-14's as "F-14A+", VF-32 didn't get their A+'s (Bravo's) until (IIRC) 98 and VF-14 never got A+'s, they converted from A's to Super Hornets in 01. Just my $.02, ymmv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 Thanks all. As I mentioned earlier I had never heard of this before. When I stumbled across a picture an F-4 on a flight deck that it shouldn't be on I was intrigued. Anyways, mystery solved . And I have an F-4 to place on my deck along with my Tomcats, Hornets, Intruders, Hawkeye's, and Sea King's and it will be correct as I have the picture to prove it LOL! Regards all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) they were also used for firefighting training There is a photo floating around of VFA-132 (or maybe -131) markings on the Fire Trainer F-4, I think on the Coral Sea. Oh, and VMFP-3's RF-4Bs can occasionally be seen on Far East carriers, even though they weren't on that deployment,,,,,,,for CarQuals and such. Edited July 23, 2018 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Hmm, probably not VMFP-3 RF-4B. It disestablished on 30 Sep 1990, literally during Desert Shield. I was at Cherry Point when they flew their last RF-4Bs to the NADEP in Nov/Dec 1990 for short term storage before drone conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Yes, Dutch, I know,,,,,,,,that is true for this photo. But, for other photos of Phantoms where they "shouldn't be", from before 9/90, they could have been, and have been, VMFP-3 birds. or the tractor trainer, or the fire trainer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Weirder things have happened. Long after the A-3 was retired, the Navy was told to scrap or remove a pole-mounted example at their base in Rota, Spain. Rather than scrapping the poor old Whale, they loaded it on the deck of an amphibious assault ship that was returning home from a Med deployment. The A-3 was then offloaded for relocation to a suitable new home upon the ship’s return to the US. Now that would make for an interesting sight! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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