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Dave Williams

Anyone working on a KH 1/35 MH-60L correction set?

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Anyone working on a set to correct the new Kitty Hawk 1/35 MH-60L kit for a Gothic Serpent bird?  Even though the kit comes with GS decals, as designed it really only builds into a more recent DAP configured aircraft with the ESSS wings.  While you can leave some things off (like the plume detectors), other things are missing like:

 

-”Batwing” SATCOM antenna

-“H” shaped cabin ceiling crossbars to change the position of the gunners seats to outboard facing

- cockpit floor armor

- life raft between gunners seats

- bare ESSS support strut attachment points (although I suppose you could cut off the bottom part of the kit gear leg cover and then cut out the attachment points and glue them directly to the fuselage)

 

Not going to add the missing ESSS stub wing covers since you can get those from KH.  Anything else the kit needs?  TIA.

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Posted (edited)

For a GS helo you'll need:

1) scratchbuild survival kits

2) 5 gal water cans 

3) about 12 ammo cans (7.62)

4) life raft

5) correct H bar

6) correct instrument panel 

7) hoist control stick 

8)armor floor panels

9) scratchbuild special cargo hook setup

10) bare lower ESSS mounts with fairings removed

 

I think that's it, but I might be leaving out some things.

 

Tim

Edited by hawkwrench

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Hey guys, I'm also looking to make some corrections, particularly to the door gunners' seats.

 

Hawkwrench, you seem to be an authority on this! Would you happen to know of any photo references showing the H bar? Also looking for photos of the floor panels, bare ESSS mounts and survival kits... but I don't want to be greedy, haha. There seem to be next to no photos of the actual Gothic Serpent helos around, especially the interior, so getting this right is going to be a challenge...

 

The life raft would basically just be an orange bag with white handles and a zip then placed between the gunners' seats, right?

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As far as the life raft, yeah pretty much. I'm not a liberty to say anything about a detail set, maybe you can ask Floyd Werner. He might can help you.

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We are working on some things.  Right now we have the H bar done.  Looking at the rest.  Tim may build another instrument panel that we'll do up.

 

For a GS helo you'll need:

1) scratchbuild survival kits- Maybe

2) 5 gal water cans- Sourced elsewhere

3) about 12 ammo cans (7.62)- sourced elsewhere

4) life raft-Not required

5) correct H bar-Done

6) correct instrument panel- Tim is working on it

7) hoist control stick- I think this is done with one we used in the AH-6 set.  I'll have to recheck it.  Very small item. 

8)armor floor panels--working this

9) scratchbuild special cargo hook setup- not sure what this is.

10) bare lower ESSS mounts with fairings removed- Very small probably not worth the effort to CAD or print.  Scratchbuild them but maybe.

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Here is the special cargo hook setup. It was a tube with 4 tiedowns on it in a cloverleaf shape.  This was drawn up by a OGS crew chief,  so I trust the drawing 

Screenshot_20190418-062504_Drive_zpsipta

 

Tim

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3 hours ago, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said:

For a GS helo you'll need:

1) scratchbuild survival kits- Maybe

2) 5 gal water cans- Sourced elsewhere

3) about 12 ammo cans (7.62)- sourced elsewhere

4) life raft-Not required

5) correct H bar-Done

6) correct instrument panel- Tim is working on it

7) hoist control stick- I think this is done with one we used in the AH-6 set.  I'll have to recheck it.  Very small item. 

8)armor floor panels--working this

9) scratchbuild special cargo hook setup- not sure what this is.

10) bare lower ESSS mounts with fairings removed- Very small probably not worth the effort to CAD or print.  Scratchbuild them but maybe.

 

For the 12 7.62 ammo cans - are these the right type of boxes? Would they be placed under the seats?

 

For anyone looking for similar things, Accurate Armour provide these as well as Live Resin's water canisters.

 

 

a016.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)

No, they were not placed under the seats from what I was told. They were placed all around the seats, but not under.

Here's my drawing I made up from interviews with a crew chief from Super 63. It shows the ammo cans around the seats. They're listed as #2

received_147972545861641_zps5wtdj3l9.jpe

 

The seats were designed to stroke down in the event of a crash so nothing could be placed underneath.  That went for the pilot's seats also.

 

 

Tim

Edited by hawkwrench

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Posted (edited)

Very interesting, thanks! I guess with Super 61 I'll have a little more cabin space to play with, not having the aux fuel tank.

Although I have placed the two main minigun magazines between the crew chief seats, where the console is on 63, and hoping that's not too much of an anomaly...

Edited by LooseSeal

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The magazine feed belts are connected to ammo cans that are beside the crew seats.  The curvy line represents the feed belt. 

 

Tim

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@Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Just another thing I've noticed may be missing from the kit and you may want to also work on. It seems like the antenna (I assume that's what it is!) on the port side of the tail boom has not been included. There is no reference to it in the instructions, no holes for it or indeed no part on any sprues that bears a resemblance.

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1 hour ago, LooseSeal said:

@Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Just another thing I've noticed may be missing from the kit and you may want to also work on. It seems like the antenna (I assume that's what it is!) on the port side of the tail boom has not been included. There is no reference to it in the instructions, no holes for it or indeed no part on any sprues that bears a resemblance.

Not sure which antenna you’re talking about 

Floyd

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I think people also call it the 'towel bar' antenna, the long one running along the tail. I thought maybe it was intentional, but I've seen a photo of Super 64 with it, so maybe an oversight?

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Yeah.. a pretty fiddly scratchbuild too, but a prominent enough feature to merit it! Seems strange they missed it.

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All,

 

Like many people, I want to build my Blackhawk as a Gothic Serpent helicopter.  It's great that you have identified the pieces/parts that are needed, but not being a helicopter person, is there any way that all of the items listed in this thread can be illustrated, either by drawings, or by photos, with the specific parts identified (circled or otherwise pointed out)?  I'm just not knowledgeable enough to 'get it' without 'show and tell'.  I'd greatly appreciate any help!  

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Which 7.62 ammo cans are we talking about?  The small ones that I think hold 200 rounds and are usually box mounted on the side of something like an M240, or the larger 1200 round cans marked for the M134?  I assume we aren’t talking about the giant cans in the kit, which I think hold something like 3000 rounds.  What size are the ones in the Live Resin M134 set for the Blackhawk?

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@Curt B I'm in a similar situation, but I've found a lot of what I'm looking for through various threads here and on other forums, as well as image searches and some furious Googling. There are some things I can't quite nail down, such as the floor armour, which I may have to sacrifice.

 

For the things that have been listed here... the survival kits and water canisters, you can find good photos of them (and many other things) in this very useful thread: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/301695-operation-gothic-serpent-aircraft-references/&page=8 The Scepter water cans can be sourced pretty easily, but the survival kits would need to be scratchbuilt.

For the H bar, I've made my own based on photos in that thread, but as Floyd Werner has said they are making a new part for that, if you can wait. But it wasn't very difficult to make a basic one, and my scratchbuilding skills are minimal!

The hoist control stick is pictured in that thread too. For OGS accuracy the wall panel on the kit would have to be removed and rivets re-added... personally, I decided that was beyond my capability and so ended up crafting my own very basic hoist stick from Milliput, as you can see here - 

 

IMG-0986.jpg

 

I think if you were to wait for Werner's Wings to make these new pieces, such as the correct instrument panel, then you'd be fine. Sadly, I'm an impatient modeller, haha, and have rushed along a bit!

 

@Dave Williams I'm still a little unclear on that too. But I figure it can't be the large 3000 round magazine which comes with the base kit or the Live Resin one (they're the same size by the way, just the LR one is more detailed), as they are huge and 12 of them would take up the entire cabin! I have to assume that it's this type?

 

index.php?app=core&module=attach&section

 

But if it is then the only aftermarket version I can find is Live Resin LRE-35082, which is the same basic box, but the kit and decals are designated for the Mk-19 grenade launcher.

 

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The towel bar's been deleted off of H-60s for quite some time now.  Don't remember if the OGS birds had them removed, but there are plenty of pics in the reference thread.

 

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No, they did have them, as there are photos as you say. It's just a kit mistake unfortunately.

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48 minutes ago, LooseSeal said:

@Curt B I'm in a similar situation, but I've found a lot of what I'm looking for through various threads here and on other forums, as well as image searches and some furious Googling. There are some things I can't quite nail down, such as the floor armour, which I may have to sacrifice.

 

For the things that have been listed here... the survival kits and water canisters, you can find good photos of them (and many other things) in this very useful thread: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/301695-operation-gothic-serpent-aircraft-references/&page=8 The Scepter water cans can be sourced pretty easily, but the survival kits would need to be scratchbuilt.

For the H bar, I've made my own based on photos in that thread, but as Floyd Werner has said they are making a new part for that, if you can wait. But it wasn't very difficult to make a basic one, and my scratchbuilding skills are minimal!

The hoist control stick is pictured in that thread too. For OGS accuracy the wall panel on the kit would have to be removed and rivets re-added... personally, I decided that was beyond my capability and so ended up crafting my own very basic hoist stick from Milliput, as you can see here - 

 

IMG-0986.jpg

 

I think if you were to wait for Werner's Wings to make these new pieces, such as the correct instrument panel, then you'd be fine. Sadly, I'm an impatient modeller, haha, and have rushed along a bit!

 

@Dave Williams I'm still a little unclear on that too. But I figure it can't be the large 3000 round magazine which comes with the base kit or the Live Resin one (they're the same size by the way, just the LR one is more detailed), as they are huge and 12 of them would take up the entire cabin! I have to assume that it's this type?

 

index.php?app=core&module=attach&section

 

But if it is then the only aftermarket version I can find is Live Resin LRE-35082, which is the same basic box, but the kit and decals are designated for the Mk-19 grenade launcher.

 

Those are the ammo cans. They did not have the 3000 round cans in Somalia.

 

Tim

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, hawkwrench said:

Those are the ammo cans. They did not have the 3000 round cans in Somalia.

 

Tim

 

Thanks! I think the Legend set LF3D050 is far preferable to the Live Resin one. Comes with many more pieces, but still no decals for the side.

Edited by LooseSeal

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