How to Get a Really Smooth Gloss Coat?

[gotarheelz14]

So I have been using Future before but I just don't feel very comfortable with it. I have tried brushing it on too and I don't like it. I wish I did though because it would be a great, economical way to gloss coat in prep for decals. I would think that no matter what kind you are using, there must be some overarching principles that apply to all clear coats.

So, what are some really good tips on getting a good clear coat in preparation for decals?

So far I have found that these seem to be working for me.

1.) Spray a few misting coats of clear coat.

2.) Go back, get really close to the model and lay down some thicker, wet coats.

3.) Let those dry and lay down one final wet, coat. As wet as I can get it without pooling or running.

What else am I missing?

What about laying down flat coats? How do you go about these?

Carlos

[wadeocu]

Have you tried cutting the future with windex? That is the key for getting it to level for me. More importantly, a gloss coat will only be as smooth as what is underneath it. To get a really smooth finish you will need to buff and polish the base coat. I'm having a first go with the newer Mr. Color line and the one thing I really like is that it is tough and responds well to polishing and buffing. As for flat coats - Dullcoat with Laquer thinner every time. If I need something less flat, I cut it with Metalizer sealer.

[Janissary]

You may find http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....showtopic=63929 useful. I agree with wadeocu in that the paint job is an important factor (you want it to be as smooth as possible). For future, I have found the windex idea to work incredibly well. My ideal mix ratio is 4 windex : 6 future.

[Triarius]

Okay, once and for all, Windex will work as a reducing solvent for Future BUT IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. The active ingredient in Windex is ammonia, which will attack just about any acrylic paint. Clean it up with Windex.

A better thinner for Future is isopropyl alcohol. And if you haven't you need to visit Swanny's site and read "The Complete Future." Though that last part about using Simple Green with Future has the chemist in me very curious—shouldn't work, but obviously it does or he wouldn't have said it did.

As for my own opinion, I've tried just about every suggestion I've heard: thin coats, heavy, wet coats, thinned, retarded, brushed, airbrushed, whatever. What works for one modeler doesn't seem to work well for the next. In part, this is due to the nature of Future. While it is a very forgiving material, it is also very sensitive to application techniques and to the conditions in which it is applied. Brushing most closely resembles the method of application for which it was designed. Airbrushing is highly dependent on conditions. I get my best results by applying a thin, mist coat, followed when it is tacky by a heavy coat. Thinning and using a retarder or leveling aid seems to help in very dry or very wet conditions.

[Huey Gunner]

You don't need a smooth gloss coat for decals. Just a dust free gloss surface. If your projects final finish is gloss, worry about it then. If it's a dull coat, your wasting effort on something that won't be seen. Just get the decal surface semi gloss/ gloss so decals don't silver up.

[gotarheelz14]

Thanks Paul that's a really good point and very encouraging.

Carlos

[Old Blind Dog]

For some larger planes I borrow a technique from car modeling and use a set of MicroMesh graduated abrasive cloths. These range from 1800 to 12000, and leave you with a glassy smooth surface. Apply the decal, then spray the gloss coat of your choice for beautiful results. (I used this on my 1/32 TFC Corsair a few years back; check the gallery section for photos, and a more extensive description of the technique.)

For small areas, I sometimes use a Triple-Grit polisher, which will give you sufficient glossiness to apply the decal without silvering when a gloss coat is applied over the marking.

cheers

Old Blind Dog

[DutyCat]

Paul is right...gloss sprayed over flat paint will NEVER be really glossy unless you do a bunch of prep work. For decals all you need is a satiny look and you are good to go.

I have used and absolutely swear by Testor's glosscoat lacquer thinned with lacquer thinner for my gloss. It dries quick and does not like to run (unlike Future). For the smoothest flat finish also Testors is the best I have tried. Make sure you "seal" your decals with a thin glosscoat after they have dried over night.

I have never has success spraying Future, but it works fine for a lot of people once they get through the learning curve.

[Aaronw]

If I want a really smooth glosscoat, like on a car model, I really like McGuires Scratch X and carwax as a final polish.

I'll use increasingly fine 1000-2000 grit sand paper on the paint (where I start depends on how smooth the paint already is), then I use the Scratch X. Then I wash the parts with soap and water to remove the residue from the Scratch X. Once dry I brush on the Future, when that cures the Scratch X comes out again followed by car wax.

For everything else I usually find the Future is glossy enough as is.

[Spitfire88]

I build modern jets and the only paint I have available to me is Model Master and Tamiya which the colors spray flat and I am not sure what gloss coat to use for two reasons. 1. I have not tried future before and number 2. I would love to use Testor Gloss Coat but how can you apply a oil wash to the aircraft over Testors Gloss coat?...will the solavent not lift gloss coat an paint when cleaning off the wash? I would think I would have to use Future or Acrylic gloss coat if I am going to apply and oil wash..correct?

[Triarius]

I build modern jets and the only paint I have available to me is Model Master and Tamiya which the colors spray flat and I am not sure what gloss coat to use for two reasons. 1. I have not tried future before and number 2. I would love to use Testor Gloss Coat but how can you apply a oil wash to the aircraft over Testors Gloss coat?...will the solavent not lift gloss coat an paint when cleaning off the wash? I would think I would have to use Future or Acrylic gloss coat if I am going to apply and oil wash..correct?

You are correct: oil over acrylic, acrylic over enamel.

Future is your friend. Learn what works for you. I have an La-5FN that currently has a near car body finish from just spraying with Future. Almost a shame to coat it with satin. But for a car body shine, you have to polish the final coat, period.

[Huey Gunner]

I have used and absolutely swear by Testor's glosscoat lacquer thinned with lacquer thinner for my gloss. It dries quick and does not like to run (unlike Future). For the smoothest flat finish also Testors is the best I have tried. Make sure you "seal" your decals with a thin glosscoat after they have dried over night.

I'm with you. I always try different stuff, but end up back at Testors. All types, lacquer, enamel and acryl. These wok best for me.

will the solavent not lift gloss coat an paint when cleaning off the wash? I would think I would have to use Future or Acrylic gloss coat if I am going to apply and oil wash..correct?

Correct. Thats why I have all 3 types of Testors clear finishes.

[Huey Gunner]

You are correct: oil over acrylic, acrylic over enamel.

Future is your friend. Learn what works for you. I have an La-5FN that currently has a near car body finish from just spraying with Future. Almost a shame to coat it with satin. But for a car body shine, you have to polish the final coat, period.

Sorry Triarius, didn't see your post. I polished my my gsb 1/48 Hasegawa F-6F-5N and it came out swweeeett!!

[Spitfire88]

I did not know Testors made acrylic gloss coat. My LHS only carries Model Master enamel. What about Tamiya Acrylic gloss coat....anyone had luck with that? I would rather apply a wash with my oil paints from Windsor/Newton. I have never tried an acrylic wash...what acrylic paint brand do you guys use...Tamiya gloss black?...does it work well?

[Huey Gunner]

I did not know Testors made acrylic gloss coat. My LHS only carries Model Master enamel. What about Tamiya Acrylic gloss coat....anyone had luck with that? I would rather apply a wash with my oil paints from Windsor/Newton. I have never tried an acrylic wash...what acrylic paint brand do you guys use...Tamiya gloss black?...does it work well?

All my washes are Windsor Newton. I precote with Testors acryl gloss before. Mix it about 60/70 to 40/30ish. Must dry about 24 hrs to cure, at least where I live.

[thegoodsgt]

If you're applying oils thinned with turpentine over an enamel gloss coat, you should be okay as long as you're applying a pin wash (that is, directly into the panel lines) rather than as an overall sludge wash.

[Huey Gunner]

If you're applying oils thinned with turpentine over an enamel gloss coat, you should be okay as long as you're applying a pin wash (that is, directly into the panel lines) rather than as an overall sludge wash.

I use Mona Lisa turpnoid and it still bubbled it up. Play it safe, acryl under coat.

[USMC Herc]

I have used Future & am now trying Mr.color GX100 super clear. With future sprayed over Laquer and the use of Turpentine or White mineral spirits + W/N Oils I had no issues till I added the spray flat coat from a rattle can. I am currently following a suggestion for oils useing Zippo lighter fluid.

Cheers & Semper Fi-Jason

[DutyCat]

I build modern jets and the only paint I have available to me is Model Master and Tamiya which the colors spray flat and I am not sure what gloss coat to use for two reasons. 1. I have not tried future before and number 2. I would love to use Testor Gloss Coat but how can you apply a oil wash to the aircraft over Testors Gloss coat?...will the solavent not lift gloss coat an paint when cleaning off the wash? I would think I would have to use Future or Acrylic gloss coat if I am going to apply and oil wash..correct?

I apply a thinner based wash over Testors glosscoat all the time, just in small amounts. As long as you go easy and fast you are okay. If you are really concerned, then use some sort of an acrylic clearcoat, of course.

[DutyCat]

If you're applying oils thinned with turpentine over an enamel gloss coat, you should be okay as long as you're applying a pin wash (that is, directly into the panel lines) rather than as an overall sludge wash.

What he said. That's what I do. Just don't go overboard.

[Edgar]

Can't see the problem; I use Xtracolor, which is already gloss, so it cuts out the middle-man.

Edgar

[DutyCat]

Can't see the problem; I use Xtracolor, which is already gloss, so it cuts out the middle-man.

Edgar

Well the problem is you HAVE to handle the model to do the camo, so unless you are using a quick drying flat paint, it really can't be done. All these paint companies that produce semi gloss or gloss paints in an attempt to cut out the glosscoat step aren't looking deep enough into the process.

[leverancier]

I've tried about every possible brand and for me, the vallejo spray cans work best. The matt coat is really good too. They dry really quick too, so less chance of dust setting on the surface. With future I allways end up with a lot of dust and it puddles up in corners, leaving yellowish drops.

[Isaac]

Okay, once and for all, Windex will work as a reducing solvent for Future BUT IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. The active ingredient in Windex is ammonia, which will attack just about any acrylic paint. Clean it up with Windex.

A better thinner for Future is isopropyl alcohol. And if you haven't you need to visit Swanny's site and read "The Complete Future." Though that last part about using Simple Green with Future has the chemist in me very curious—shouldn't work, but obviously it does or he wouldn't have said it did.

As for my own opinion, I've tried just about every suggestion I've heard: thin coats, heavy, wet coats, thinned, retarded, brushed, airbrushed, whatever. What works for one modeler doesn't seem to work well for the next. In part, this is due to the nature of Future. While it is a very forgiving material, it is also very sensitive to application techniques and to the conditions in which it is applied. Brushing most closely resembles the method of application for which it was designed. Airbrushing is highly dependent on conditions. I get my best results by applying a thin, mist coat, followed when it is tacky by a heavy coat. Thinning and using a retarder or leveling aid seems to help in very dry or very wet conditions.

+1 on this. Although, I do use windex. I may just have to use straight alcohol or tamiya thinner as an experiment.

[MarkW]

Just keep in mind alcohol, especially some of the stronger varieties, can strip Gunze lacquers.