Tamiya Acrylic XF-21 Flat Base

[hazic]

Hi

Can you use Tamiya Acrylic XF-21 Flat Base on an Humbrol Enamel paint?

Thanks

hasi

[Thorsten Wieking]

Only if you intend to give the model a white-wash winter camo. X-21 is merely a flatting agent (talcum powder) and can not be used alone.

Cheers

Thorsten

[Triarius]

It's not talc, it's a microsilica suspension. It is only intended as an additive to gloss acrylic paints. It is only compatible with acrylics, not enamels.

If all you want to do is put a flat to semigloss coating over the enamel, then mixing XF-21 with any clear gloss acrylic flat (like Future) will work just fine.

[cheeley]

Also, if you're mixing with Future, make sure that you pick the right X21

...acrylic in the round jar NOT...

...enamel in the square one.

Chris

[hazic]

Thank you all.

I'm going to use the X21 (the round jar) as flat coating over the enamel paint.

[Isaac]

Thank you all.

I'm going to use the X21 (the round jar) as flat coating over the enamel paint.

You don't want to use it straight. For example, mix the flat base with gloss clear to achieve the level of flatness you want.

[Lucas C.]

As Isaac said--do NOT use X-21 by itself. It is not a flat coat, it is meant to be used to flatten other paints (or gloss clear coats). If you spray or brush it on, you will just get a white glob of "frosting" on your nice paint job.

[RichardL]

I'm going to use the X21 (the round jar) as flat coating over the enamel paint.

Re read the replies above. It is a FLAT BASE, not a flat coat.

[Grey Ghost 531]

What are the proportions? I assume the more flat base you add to the varnish, the flatter the result will be. Will 1 part flat base to 4 parts Future be pretty flat?

I've got some but have never used it. (luckily, I was forwarned by posts like this to not use it straight)

[dmk0210]

What are the proportions? I assume the more flat base you add to the varnish, the flatter the result will be. Will 1 part flat base to 4 parts Future be pretty flat?

I've got some but have never used it. (luckily, I was forwarned by posts like this to not use it straight)

This may help:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

If you wish to use flattened Future as a final coat here are a couple of suggested ratios of Tamiya flat base for different effects:

1 part flat base to 3 parts Future = very flat

1 part flat base to 10 parts Future = flat

1 part flat base to 15 parts Future = satin

If you get too much of anybody's flat base on the surface of your model you run the risk of making it all go white. No thinning is required just make sure it is well mixed.

Edited December 15, 2010 by dmk0210

[dmk0210]

BTW, is Acrylic X-21 supposed to be like a paste or gel in the bottle?

My bottle is, but it seems to work OK. I'm just wondering if that is normal.

[Triarius]

BTW, is Acrylic X-21 supposed to be like a paste or gel in the bottle?

My bottle is, but it seems to work OK. I'm just wondering if that is normal.

Yes. It's thixotropic—that's a $10 word for "it changes viscosity when sheared." Just stir it before using.

[hazic]

Hi

Thanks to you all, now I understand better how to use the Acrylic X-21.

I'm going to mix it with some Future and use it to flatten the paint.

BTW

Is there any Acrylic Flat coat that is used as a coat, and not as mean to flatten the paint?

[Grey Ghost 531]

This may help:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

[Triarius]

Is there any Acrylic Flat coat that is used as a coat, and not as mean to flatten the paint?

I'm inordinately fond of Polly Scale flat and satin.

[dmk0210]

Yes. It's thixotropic—that's a $10 word for "it changes viscosity when sheared." Just stir it before using.

Ah, yes. I thought it might have been thixotropical.

[RichardL]

Is there any Acrylic Flat coat that is used as a coat, and not as mean to flatten the paint?

There are many out there: Model Master, XtraCrylix, Gunze, PollyScale, Vallejo, LifeColor, MicroScale to name a few.

Even Liquitex Matte Varnish sprayed straight from the bottle gives great results. Vallejo Model Air flat varnish is excellent, although it's very difficult to find.

[RichardL]

I'm inordinately fond of Polly Scale flat and satin.

The two bottle of Polly Scale flat I bought this year gave me a white frost finish.

[Janissary]

The two bottle of Polly Scale flat I bought this year gave me a white frost finish.

I had the very same thing happen to me 2 years ago. I was very disappointed. I tried distilled water, windex, alcohol and none worked (I now understand only distilled water is supposed to work but it didn't). Water to pollyscale ratio was about 60:40. Granted I had not used it before so I cannot say if it was my inability to get it to work or if there was something truly wrong with it. I have been using Testors dullcoat ever since.

[Triarius]

Water to pollyscale ratio was about 60:40.

There's the problem, or part of it. Ten to fifteen percent water, ~12 psi gravity fed, 15-18 psi siphon. Watch your distance.

Clears are hard to apply because they are hard to see. Even applying gray over gray it's easy to see where the paint is and isn't, and how thick it is. With a clear, if the light isn't right, you can hardly tell where you've painted and where you haven't, or whether the coat is too wet or too dry.

And mix the @$#! out of it. Flat pigment is usually microsilica, which has a tremendous tendency to clump.

[hazic]

Hi

Are these Testors clear acrylic coats can be used straight form the jar to apply on Humbrol Enamel paint?

Testors #4636 flat clear acrylic

Testors #4638 gloss clear acrylic

[RichardL]

Hi

Are these Testors clear acrylic coats can be used straight form the jar to apply on Humbrol Enamel paint?

Testors #4636 flat clear acrylic

Testors #4638 gloss clear acrylic

No, you must mix them with either distilled water or Acryl thinner. Why not use Humbrol Matt Cote?

[hazic]

It's just a matter of preferences because I'm going to use it a lot I prefer using the acrylic

kind of flat coat

I didn't found any Humbrol acrylic coat so I'm looking to other company that makes them

[Chuck1945]

Hi

Are these Testors clear acrylic coats can be used straight form the jar to apply on Humbrol Enamel paint?

Testors #4636 flat clear acrylic

Testors #4638 gloss clear acrylic

The only 'mixing' these require would be thinning for airbrush use. Unlike the Tamiya flat base that is just a flattening agent, the Testors (and other most brands) are ready to use.

[Mike C]

Hi

Thanks to you all, now I understand better how to use the Acrylic X-21.

I'm going to mix it with some Future and use it to flatten the paint.

BTW

Is there any Acrylic Flat coat that is used as a coat, and not as mean to flatten the paint?

You can mix Tamiya's X-22 Clear (gloss) with X-21 Flat Base to get flat clear. Not entirely certain about the proportion though. I'd start with 10 parts X-22 and 1 part X-21, and then keep adding X-21 little by little until you get the "flatness" level you want.

Personally, because I'm a bit lazy, for flat clear I use Gunze's Aqueous Hobby H20 Flat Clear.