Painting Bare Metal Aircraft?

[slick95]

I'm building a Tamiya P-47D and I will be painting it in the bare metal color. So, I have a few questions?

1. How do I go about doing this? Do I prime it, paint it black (flat or gloss?), and then paint it the silver or other aluminum color?

2. It's got invasion strips so.....when should I spray that area? Should i spray it right after I prime it before the coat of black? Or should I wait until I spray the silver then mask it off and spray the invasion stripes?

Any other tips or techniques are greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!!

SLICK

[thegoodsgt]

You've seen these articles, right?

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/TnT_Archives/BMF.htm

Also, if you search this Tools 'n' Tips forum you'll find quite a few great discussions that you'll find very helpful, particularly as you narrow down your choice of paint (e.g., Metalizer Alclad, etc.).

[GGoheen]

Slick,

I think the best approach would be to prime (as usual, i.e., gray primer or Mr. Surfacer) and then lay down a few light coats of gloss white. (Yes I know there will be others out there saying it should be flat white.....get a life and knock it down with clear dull later).

After doing so, having a nice wide patch of gloss white to work with you can begin to mask off for the black portion of the invasion stripes. Again...stick with GLOSS rather than flat black, as (1) you can knock it down with dull later and (2) the base coat for Alclad needs to be GLOSS ENAMEL!

By going in this order you can eliminate a fair amount of "go back" time to mask...lay in your white....overspray with black and pray to the modeling God's above that there's no misting on your bare metal finish. Thinking through the process in these terms only help your results turn out that much better and less frustrating. Do enjoy and great question!

Sincerely,

Greg

San Jose, CA

[Isaac]

You could make life easier on yourself and use a Tamiya rattle can. You can get very nice results without the extra work of alclad.

[madmike]

Tamiya AS-12 sprayed in a series of light coats over either gloss black or white/grey fine primer gives really good results.

Shake the cans well and warm in hot water (not boiling) for 5 minutes before applying.

;)

MikeJ

[GGoheen]

Slick,

While there are a few steps to prep and apply Alclad products the results FAR OUTWEIGH the rather poor advice of using a rattle can of paint.....even from Tamiya. If a mono-toned P-47 is what you're seeking as the final result...by all means.....use the rattle can but judging by your other work and builds I'd suspect you want something a little more accurate than silver paint over plastic. :)

Greg

[niart17]

and thus, the drama began.

[Bucky Katt]

I highly recommend this DVD:

http://www.masterclassmodels.com/disk2.html

You can order it directly from Master Class, Squadron carries it as well.

Brian

[GGoheen]

I highly recommend this DVD:

http://www.masterclassmodels.com/disk2.html

You can order it directly from Master Class, Squadron carries it as well.

Brian

And thus, Brian has it right too since this DVD is based on using Alclad II products. Way to go Brian!!

[Bucky Katt]

And thus, Brian has it right too since this DVD is based on using Alclad II products. Way to go Brian!!

I wasn't trying to get in the middle of a "Tamiya Rattlecan" vs" Alclad debate. When I saw the question about Bare Metal aircraft, this immediately popped into my mind. I have this DVD and it cleared up so many questions and took away some of the fear I had about building a NMF aircraft. Seeing it done, in my mind beats a still picture or a text description any day of the week....for me.

Thought it might help...sorry if it came off the wrong way.

Brian

[madmike]

Slick,

While there are a few steps to prep and apply Alclad products the results FAR OUTWEIGH the rather poor advice of using a rattle can of paint.....even from Tamiya. If a mono-toned P-47 is what you're seeking as the final result...by all means.....use the rattle can but judging by your other work and builds I'd suspect you want something a little more accurate than silver paint over plastic.

Greg

Greg

What a shame you phrased your post the way you have. Advice on finishing a model is invariably always based on personal experiences and preference. However deriding other posters advice as poor is dismissive, disrespectful and downright unhelpful.

By all means offer up your experiences and personal preference on using a technique or product but please refrain from criticising other peoples advice. It does nothing to answer the OP's question and turns an innocent request for advice into a flame war.

MikeJ

Edited August 16, 2007 by madmike

[slick95]

Not to get into the middle of any debate myself, but I want to thank all of you for your tips!! Although the rattle can sounds appealing because of the simplicity, I would like to try aclad at some point so I may do it this time. That is, if I can find it anywhere!!!

Thanks again guys!!

SLICK

[Thommo]

I'm on a quest to try every type of BMF option available (except foil ) - gradually working thru them. My experiences so far (scores out of 10) - note ALL of these are sprayed over Tamyia rattlecan lacquer primer (light grey colour):

1. Tamiya acrylic aluminium 4/10 - too gritty, coarse

2. Tamyia rattlecan aluminium 7-8/10 - easiest method, warm & shake can well, several light coats

3. Alclad II 8-9/10, but tricky to use - must get it right first time, later touch ups don't seem to work so well

4. Gunze Mr Metal - 5-6/10 - very fragile after application

5. SnJ spraymetal - 6-7/10 - clogs in airbrush heaps more than Alclad, I won't use it again

6. SnJ polishing powder - 9/10 - this stuff is magic, but I've only used it on small parts, never a whole aircraft. Just rub it on, buff off and presto, nice shiney silver.

About to try: Citadel paints Mitheral Silver (acrylic), and after that Floquil Old Silver (enamel).

As for your invasion stripes - I'd apply the BMF first, then mask and spray the stripes.

Gloss coats under BMF - never tried em. :D

[albert_sy2]

i agree the gunze mr metal is extremely fragile and tends to come off if you so much as touch it.

[Bob Perry]

Tamiya AS-12 sprayed in a series of light coats over either gloss black or white/grey fine primer gives really good results.

Shake the cans well and warm in hot water (not boiling) for 5 minutes before applying.

:blink:

MikeJ

Mike:

I am wondering about the primer. Does the colour of the primer make any difference to the finished colour? For example, does black impart a darker tone to the finish than, say, grey and could you replicate differing tones of metal by manipulating the undercoat?

[ScottD]

Mike:

I am wondering about the primer. Does the colour of the primer make any difference to the finished colour? For example, does black impart a darker tone to the finish than, say, grey and could you replicate differing tones of metal by manipulating the undercoat?

it does with Alclad but not with Tamiya spray paint in my experance.

Alclad is a great product, but I've been stung with bad/slow drying paint before which makes me leary and Tamiya Sprays work every time, though I haven't done a whole AC with them yet...but that will change soon...

[Bob Perry]

it does with Alclad but not with Tamiya spray paint in my experance.

Alclad is a great product, but I've been stung with bad/slow drying paint before which makes me leary and Tamiya Sprays work every time, though I haven't done a whole AC with them yet...but that will change soon...

Thanks, I am working toward a partial NMF civilian Avenger and am looking for a suitably easy way to do the differing fuselage panels.

[madmike]

Mike:

I am wondering about the primer. Does the colour of the primer make any difference to the finished colour? For example, does black impart a darker tone to the finish than, say, grey and could you replicate differing tones of metal by manipulating the undercoat?

Bob

I have found using Tamiya fine white primer, results in a "brighter" metallic finish.

Pretty sure if you used white/black combinations you would get tonal differences.

Tonal basing is something I have been meaning to experiment with for a while now.

MikeJ

Edited August 16, 2007 by madmike

[Bob Perry]

Bob

I have found using Tamiya fine white primer, results in a "brighter" metallic finish.

Pretty sure if you used white/black combinations you would get tonal differences.

Tonal basing is something I have been meaning to experiment with for a while now.

MikeJ

Here's what I am doing, not the warbird scheme but the last one on the page, when CF-XOM was a working girl:

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/avengerregi...nger-69325.html

The different tones are distinctive but not so different as to appear as stripes. It looks like manipulating the undercoat might do the trick.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Bob Perry

[GGoheen]

Greg

What a shame you phrased your post the way you have. Advice on finishing a model is invariably always based on personal experiences and preference. However deriding other posters advice as poor is dismissive, disrespectful and downright unhelpful.

By all means offer up your experiences and personal preference on using a technique or product but please refrain from criticising other peoples advice. It does nothing to answer the OP's question and turns an innocent request for advice into a flame war.

MikeJ

Mike,

The posting wasn't to degrade others as much as twart the overly simplistic advice of using rattle cans as opposed to using some other means that would give the user one of the most realistic finishes. Far too often it seems others here are very one-sided, if not opinionated, about certain products they use (and yes, I suppose I can listed as the same for my personal preference in using Alclad II for this type of painting technique). Yet when one dismisses the use of products recommended, i.e., Alclad, to say similiar results can be found in a spray can is misleading at best. My experiences for bare metal were very much shared initially and, as is often the case here on ARC, side debates can erupt since what works for one doesn't necessarily apply to all. It's not to belittle or disrespect in the least, in so much as the saying goes...let's agree to disagree. Rattle cans work for some...but not all, as can be said for Alclad, Gunze, MM Metalizer and the like. Essentially find what works for you and stick with it and when transitioning to another product cautiously post your question here so others can offer their experiences with such. End of story my friend.

Regards,

Greg

[Thommo]

Well, I just shot my Sabre with Citadel mithral after getting some more advice from Kevin (Smithery) & Madmike because my initial attempts on the gear doors etc were not great (got some grey blotchiness, but that was because I did not thin it enough - I experimented with methylated spirit, Tamyia thinner, distilled water - the distilled water worked best, but I had the pressure on the AB too high 20psi which is why I think the other thinners did not work ).

Smithery advised the following:

1. Spray at 10 psi (I did about 12 psi)

2. Thin it heaps (I did about 80% Tamyia acrylic thinner)

3. I added a drop of drying retarder

4. Undercoat with Tamiya gloss black (x-1) - I did

5. Spray couple of mist coats (I probably needed 4 to cover the black).

It's still drying now, but looks good - might polish it a bit. Will post some pics in my Sabre progress thread later.

So the main thing with this stuff is thin well, drop the a/b pressure to about 10 and do several mist coats, not a thick one else you'll get grey blotchiness :D

[Thommo]

Well, I just shot my Sabre with Citadel mithral after getting some more advice from Kevin (Smithery) & Madmike because my initial attempts on the gear doors etc were not great (got some grey blotchiness, but that was because I did not thin it enough - I experimented with methylated spirit, Tamyia thinner, distilled water - the distilled water worked best, but I had the pressure on the AB too high 20psi which is why I think the other thinners did not work ).

Smithery advised the following:

1. Spray at 10 psi (I did about 12 psi)

2. Thin it heaps (I did about 80% Tamyia acrylic thinner)

3. I added a drop of drying retarder

4. Undercoat with Tamiya gloss black (x-1) - I did

5. Spray couple of mist coats (I probably needed 4 to cover the black).

It's still drying now, but looks good - might polish it a bit. Will post some pics in my Sabre progress thread later.

So the main thing with this stuff is thin well, drop the a/b pressure to about 10 and do several mist coats, not a thick one else you'll get grey blotchiness :D

Here's pic

A few blemishes (scratches, dust - that's what happens when the kitchen table is your spray booth) but nearly as smooth as my Alclad attempts really.

[smithery]

Glad to hear (and see) it worked for you Thommo. Now go get yourself a pot of Chainmail and Bolt Gun Metal. Those are great for NMF finishes as well.

Did I mention they can be mixed with one another for great tonal differences?

[Cap'n Wannabe]

About to try: Citadel paints Mitheral Silver (acrylic)

I'm just about to try Mitheral Silver on a Mustang. The bloke in Games Workshop suggested undercoating with Chainmail first, then misting on the Mitheral Silver. I've got some black stripes to do first, but keep an eye out in the Monogram GB forum...

Edit: I should probably read the entire thread before posting

Edited August 20, 2007 by damo

[madmike]

Looking grouse Thommo!

I am going to try this method on my Su7 build for the Red Stars G later this year.

Great to chat to you on the phone btw

Johno

Edited August 20, 2007 by madmike