HH_Lionking Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Is it a Tempest? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smithery Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Don't think it's a Tempest or Typhoon, as there are only three exhaust stasks. The Tempest and Tiffie had six very close together. I'd be willing to bet it is one side of a multiengined aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kitnut617 Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) I'm not sure what it is, but it's not a Tempest or Typhoon. I'm thinking it's a Test Bed or something. I'm even thinking it might be a radial engine because if you follow the center of the prop blade it seems to go to a weird center point for a inline. Or it could be this: http://avions.legendaires.free.fr/Images/Gmanchester-2.jpg Edited August 11, 2007 by kitnut617 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Perry Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 What's the source of the picture? I am curious about the small fin - a flow straightener? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
agboak Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 What's the source of the picture? I am curious about the small fin - a flow straightener? Could it be an He 51? That's the only one I can think of with exhausts above the propline, but did it only have six? Not really a WW2 fighter anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NZ_Grant Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 That's actually a Mig-3 :) I'd post a pic from a different angle but I'm not sure how to go about it??? Cheers Grant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hazmatt Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Here's said MiG-3 http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0921718/L/ Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Wow, Grant, good eye! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NZ_Grant Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Wow, Grant, good eye! Thanks :-) I have several of them in my stash (Trumpeter & ICM) and also several hundred pics on my computer :-) I have a "thing" for VVS aviation. Cheers Grant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Is that an original MiG-3 or a rebuild? I wouldn't think they'd be using the little vanes or strakes or vortex generators or whatever you call the little fin like things to adjust airflow. lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peebeep Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I wouldn't think they'd be using the little vanes or strakes or vortex generators or whatever you call the little fin like things to adjust airflow. Wouldn't they now? If you have a zoom tool you will see them in this pic. peebeep Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Wouldn't they now? If you have a zoom tool you will see them in this pic. peebeep I claim Photoshop. lol I'm just surprised they'd be thinking to that degree of aerodynamics for the era, and curious as to how and for what reasons regarding structural design and airflow the engineers decided the vane was required. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HH_Lionking Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 ;) THX guys .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peebeep Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I'm just surprised they'd be thinking to that degree of aerodynamics for the era, and curious as to how and for what reasons regarding structural design and airflow the engineers decided the vane was required. Low pressure area aft of the intake to prevent exhaust induction? Smoothing out turbulent flow aft of the fairing? They are guesses, my knowledge of aerodynamics is limited. I think you are under-estimating the understanding of aerodynamics from this period, the book was mostly written whereas the limitations arose mainly from the available technology and materials. peebeep Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 The wartime MiG-3 used a Soviet Mikulin AM-35A inline engine. The restored example in the first photo uses an Allison engine. Maybe that explains it ???? Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 PS - Here's a photo I took of the restored MiG-3 at MAKS 05, Zhukovsky, Moscow in 2005 :- Note that this is one of a number of MiG-3 restorations currently underway. They had hoped to use an AM-35 - but it isn't flightworthy, so they use an Allison instead - 'without altering the nose contours'. Maybe they had to change it slightly ??? Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peebeep Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Maybe that explains it ???? Don't think so Ken, the strakes are visible photos of Mig-3's from the forties. I think they are there to smooth out the airflow between the fairing and the exhaust which would otherwise probably be quite turbulent. Great pic of the restored machine, would love to see that one airborne! peebeep Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Don't think so Ken, the strakes are visible photos of Mig-3's from the forties. I think they are there to smooth out the airflow between the fairing and the exhaust which would otherwise probably be quite turbulent.Great pic of the restored machine, would love to see that one airborne! peebeep peebeep, I was just about to rush in with a reply - saying 'Oh no they are not on forties machines!!!' when I again dug out 'Mikoyans Piston-Engined Fighters' (Vol 13 in the Red Star series. I had looked previously - and couldn't find any GPW machines with the baffles - then when I took a closer look, it seems they are visible on some machines - but not others !!! They appear to be triangular fairings above AND BELOW the rear part of the engine oil cooler intake. The rear end of this intake has a shutter - and the farings form the top and bottom of the shutter when it is open. It isn't obvious on all machines though - maybe different factories made different shutter layouts ?? Maybe the baffles help to form a 'tunnel' on the shutter - and therefore straighten out the exhaust flow?? I'll try and ask - if the machine is at MAKS next week......... Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I've just 're-discovered' some closeups of the restored MiG-3 that I took at MAKS 05.... So I have cropped & uploaded them...... Hope this explains it..... Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Those "fins" were added on the late MiG-3. That door between the fins is the outlet for the oil coolers. It was found that without the doors on early MiG-3s, the turbulence created when the oil cooling flaps were opened hampered the exit of the hot air from the oil radiator and diminished the oil cooling capabilities. By adding those fins, turbulence at the oil cooler exhaust was cut and the oil radiators could operate much more efficiently. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kitnut617 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) Good find, I wouldn't have guessed it was on an inline engine. But studying the last picture and some of the others, you can see that the vanes are nothing more than sides to the moving part of the cooler duct. You are probably more use to seeing the sides of the flap being part of the flap but it this case there would be no room inside the duct as the engine is in the way. You can see from this photo that the trailing edge has a radius to it so that as the flap opens it keeps a constant length to the duct but allows increases to the size of the opening. I would imagine when the flap is full open (which would be at slow speeds - landing for instance) the airflow would vortex behind the flap which would suck more air through the cooler. Edited August 13, 2007 by kitnut617 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 PS - Here's a photo I took of the restored MiG-3 at MAKS 05, Zhukovsky, Moscow in 2005 :- They had hoped to use an AM-35 - but it isn't flightworthy, so they use an Allison instead - 'without altering the nose contours'. Maybe they had to change it slightly ??? Ken I would tend to disagree about "without altering the nose contours". The cylinder head bulge above the exhaust stacks doesn't appear as prominent or sharp at the front on the real MiG-3. In fact, the whole nose looks a little "off" to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) You will also notice with these two shots that the front intake of the oil cooler is different on each side of the plane. This is to make the best use of the direction of the airflow off of the prop. Also, I do not believe that this was restored with an Alison engine, I believe it was an AM-38F, which was from the Il-2, instead of the original AM-35A. Edit: Here is a pic of the AM-38F that was used in this restoration Edit 2: Here is a period shot of the nose with the original AM-35A. To me the bulge at the top of the cowl for the cylinder heads looks pretty similar to the restored MiG-3 witht he AM-38F. I think that the AM-35A and the AM-38F were dimensionally quite similar, requiring only minor changes during restoration. It looks to me like the cowl bulge was not changed, or if it was, it was a minor change. Edited August 13, 2007 by jrallman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 jrallman, According to a short piece in the UK mag Aircraft Illustrated.... There are currently SIX MiG-3's undergoing restoration. The one I photographed at MAKS 2005 is powered by a Mikulin AM-35, but is still grounded due to the engine's unserviceability. Another one - Allison powered - 'but without affecting the external contours of the engine cowling' is coded 3457 and was purchased by Jerry Yagen of The Fighter Factory. It is painted two-tone black/green camo and has 'white 17' on the fin/rudder. It is currently undergoing flight tests at Novosibirsk and has completed a dozen flights. It is likely to attend MAKS 2007 - before being packaged up for its trip to the USA. I will try and photograph it next week..... Cheers Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrallman Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 (edited) I am pretty sure the MiG-3 on display at MAKS 2005 was the same one that was restored by Aviarestoration for Rusavia. It was displayed in-progress at MAKS 2003. Here is an article about it, it is in Russian, but has some nice pics. If they are the same MiG, and I am pretty sure that they are, then it is powered by the AM-38F. A telltale that this MiG-3 is powered by an AM-38F and not an AM-35A is that the bump and intake for the oil cooling pump is larger for the AM-38F than for the AM-35A. The MiG-3 we have been looking at from MAKS 2005 has the larger oil pump bump of an AM-38F. As a side note, the pics I have posted of this MiG from MAKS 2005 are by Yuri Pasholok. Edited August 14, 2007 by jrallman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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