Par429 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hey- As part of the requirement for an all quadrant weapon system for the CV-22, SOCOM awarded a contract to BAE Systems to mount their Remote Guardian System in the belly of the CV-22. It's a remote GAU-2 (7.62 minigun) in the aft hellhole. If successful, the Marines MV-22 will use it also. Link: http://www.shephard.co.uk/rotorhub/Default...77-3637c304b9d3 Should be very interesting over the next few months to see how this approach work out. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 What's the aft hellhole on a CV-22? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Par429 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 What's the aft hellhole on a CV-22? The hole in the floor where they mount the cargo hooks for sling-loads. The same as on any cargo carrying helo. There's one forward and one aft. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Hey- As part of the requirement for an all quadrant weapon system for the CV-22, SOCOM awarded a contract to BAE Systems to mount their Remote Guardian System in the belly of the CV-22. It's a remote GAU-2 (7.62 minigun) in the aft hellhole. If successful, the Marines MV-22 will use it also. Link: http://www.shephard.co.uk/rotorhub/Default...77-3637c304b9d3 Should be very interesting over the next few months to see how this approach work out. Phil That should be interesting. Sort of like that big Phalanx gun on a ship? Works for lower threat but what happens if they're getting shot at from above? One problem at a time I guess..... Chief Snake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 That should be interesting. Sort of like that big Phalanx gun on a ship? Works for lower threat but what happens if they're getting shot at from above? One problem at a time I guess.....Chief Snake If a CV-22 is getting shot at from above then they've screwed up royally and the whole mission is compromised. More realistically, how would one put an upper hemisphere defensive armament on that pig, with those two huge proprotors up there when they'd be most likely to need the capability? Field of fire isn't exactly wide-open on the V-22...for that matter, how does any OTHER helo deal with fire from above? Isn't that what the escorts are for? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LemonJello Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I just read an article in the Marine Corps Gazette that mentioned the hellhole mounted minigun as an option for self defense. Now, what if they put TWO on the V-22? One in each hellhole? Sure you give up your sling load ability, but for putting grunts into an LZ, I gotta think you bring as many guns to the fight as you can, leave the follow-on birds without guns if they have to bring in humvees or other sling loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobrahistorian Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Hell, why not put a top turret and a ball turret on the thing? Believe it or not, that's a serious question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 How effective (if at all) would a hellhole-mounted gun work when the Osprey was on the ground? Could it return fire if need be? How effective would that positioning be with regards to aiming and it's range? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Hell, why not put a top turret and a ball turret on the thing? Believe it or not, that's a serious question. There's no where to put a top turret, as the area in front of and aft of the wing needs to remain clear for wing stow, and there is already a good bit of equipment in the center of the wings. A remote-control ball is a possibility, but I don't know what the proposal for the minigun looks like. A ball might not be feasible with the existing structure and cabin floor design. How effective (if at all) would a hellhole-mounted gun work when the Osprey was on the ground? Could it return fire if need be? How effective would that positioning be with regards to aiming and it's range? In short, not very IMO. In addition to the previously mentioned low ground clearance, you've got the landing gear in the way for a good portion of the circle of fire, the ramp taking up a lot of the remainder, and very limited ability to elevate the gun to shoot at anything higher than an enemy's kneecaps. The main usefulness would be to supress fire coming from the ground on approach to an LZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LemonJello Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 The gazette article also mentions long term solutions for escorting -22s. It mentions the Bell/Agusta 609 and a couple of UAS/UAV like Fire Scout, Dragonfly and Eagle Eye as possible fixes. I'm looking for an electronic version of the story, but you have to be a member of the Marine Corps Assosciation to get it from their site. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raceaddict Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 The gazette article also mentions long term solutions for escorting -22s. It mentions the Bell/Agusta 609 and a couple of UAS/UAV like Fire Scout, Dragonfly and Eagle Eye as possible fixes. The B/A-609 idea is interesting... What would they do? Strip one out and set it up as a mini gunship, like a tilt-rotor version of a Little Bird? Of the three UAVs you mentioned, two are normal rotorcraft... so wouldn't they have the same limitations as a manned helicopter in that they couldn't keep up with the V-22 when it's in conventional flight mode? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Par429 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 A remote-control ball is a possibility, but I don't know what the proposal for the minigun looks like. A ball might not be feasible with the existing structure and cabin floor design. Hey- The current system is a remote-controlled turreted system without a ball around it. It traverses 360 degrees as well as up and down (not so much up though, might hit something important). It fully folds up to fit in the space under the floor in the hellhole. Agree though, probably not very effective on the ground. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Sounds a bit like an evolution of the MiniTAT/FTS by Emerson. DevelopmentOriginally called MiniTAT (Tactical Aircraft Turret) the Flexible Turret System (FTS) was developed by Emerson Electric Company (later Electronics and Space Corporation) as a retractable gun mount specifically designed as a 'strap-on' system to meet the defence requirements of scout and transport helicopters. The system was designed with ease of fitting in mind, and without the need to modify the helicopter structure. The FTS was developed to take the US 7.62 mm M134 Mini-Gun and 1,000 rounds of ammunition, but it can also carry other guns which use the standard NATO 7.62 mm ammunition, including the Belgian FN-MAG 58. The FTS has been cleared for carriage on the SA-341 Gazelle, Agusta-Bell AB 206 Jetranger, OH-58 Kiowa, UH-1 Iroquois, BO 105 and CH-136 helicopters. Best pic I've found: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Par429 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) Sounds a bit like an evolution of the MiniTAT/FTS by Emerson. Hey- Thats pretty close. Here a link to BAE which has a pic of the system mounted on a Humvee. They've been driving around shooting stuff for a while now to test and refine the system. http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices...od_eis_rgs.html There's a pdf brochure on the link that shows an illustration of the V-22 installation. Phil Edited January 23, 2008 by Par429 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LemonJello Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 The B/A-609 idea is interesting... What would they do? Strip one out and set it up as a mini gunship, like a tilt-rotor version of a Little Bird?Of the three UAVs you mentioned, two are normal rotorcraft... so wouldn't they have the same limitations as a manned helicopter in that they couldn't keep up with the V-22 when it's in conventional flight mode? It didn't go into a lot of detail really, just mentioned the above as suggested solutions for escort duties. The -609 is mentioned as being a "reconfigured gunship version." Could UAV escorts work? I suppose, but I don't think the crews of the -22s going in would feel all warm and fuzzy about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedHeadKevin Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 So, for landing, would the gun fold up into the hell hole? Or is it shallow enough that it wouldn't touch the ground? ALso, The 7.62 minigun, while a bad@ss weapon, isn't huge firepower against armored vehicles or fortified targets. If they ever did a gunship version of the Osprey, could they use a similar arrangement, but replace the minigun with say, an M230 chain gun from the Apache? Or even an M61 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raceaddict Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I think they should be looking for a more immediate solution though, at least in the interim. Bell/Agusta hasn't even delivered a single civilian version yet... how long will it be 'til they can deliver a reconfigured gunship? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 for that matter, how does any OTHER helo deal with fire from above? apologies for the size.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will7813 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Aewsome shot! I think this is very much a stop gap measure before a proper solution can be installed, and I suppose thought of. The Osprey doesn't do itself a lot of favours in terms of self defence. I think the only truly effective way of landing forces on hot LZs and in hostile territory is an escort. Saying that, I can't come up with a solution for that either. My 2 cents. Will Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LemonJello Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) Well, I know Phil (Par429) and I have our "concept demonstrator mock-ups" built, I just need to find that business card the Boeing rep gave me at the Modern Marine Expo last fall... Edited January 24, 2008 by LemonJello Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will7813 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I would very much like to see your a prototype of your gunship LemonJello, who's in to fund the thing? You can gurantee US DoD won't. Will Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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