marxy Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hey everyone, I was looking around online this weekend and there appears to be a LOT less model types available for civil airliner fans to build than for military modellers. Is there a reason for this? For example, it's hard to find a 757/767 model these days, and a lack of a normal A332, A345 kit is a little bit strange :s Does anyone have input onto the reason for all this? Thanks Arik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hpennell Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Airliner modeling is far less popular than military by a wide margin, one reason for less investment by the manufacturers. What a lot of people are doing is getting some of the snap together models and modifiying them, seems to more decals are becoming available for the smaller scales, and some models you might just have to change to a larger scale. have you looked at "airlinercafe" or "diecastaircraftforums", lots of info there. hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
modelsntoys Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I always like a good airliner model, but they're difficult for me to build. The scale is too small for these fat fingers (and old eyes), the windows never seem to be correct (or the decals don't match the openings), fit always seems to be a problem for me and the schemes are bland (unless you can find aftermarket decals). I'd LOVE to have a good quality, modern, kit of an airliner....wouldn't that be cool! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
le_boz Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, I guess we are just a minority of modelers doing airliners, and as mentioned earlier, it is a too big investment for modeling company. Despite this it is always more challenging for us to make what we want, so let's take the good side of it, and enjoy modeling, Boz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marxy Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, personally I've got almost ZERO interest in military jets - modern or otherwise so I'm left with only a small choice of what I can build. The way I'm getting round this is by just improving every model every time I build them - even the same type! :) Guess I could have a bash at something military style, but I'm just not that into it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, I guess we are just a minority of modelers doing airliners A very, very tiny minority. The reason I got out of the decal biz in 2001 was because there were getting to be far too many players chasing after far too few dollars. The advent of pre-painted die-cast airliner models in the 1990s also spelled the doom of the plastic kit side of things. I'd say probably 75% of people who used to build model airliners abandoned ship when the variety of die-casts started to explode. They were interested in collecting, not building. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Guilty as charged. I've built quite a lot of airliners, those being the beautiful 1/200 models from Hasegawa. What happened is that I built so many of each type and used quite a few available decals, so until new types or decals came out, was sort of stuck. Well, when Hogan came out with 757s, 737NGs, and A330/340s, it was only the natural thing to start "collecting" these. Of course, I stripped quite a few and used some decals available. Not to fear, since Hasegawa has released their 737NGs, I have resorted to building them. But as for these other types in 1/200 that are not available in model kit form(or decal unavailable), I will purchase the "diecast" version. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeejeeZ Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Guilty as charged. I've built quite a lot of airliners, those being the beautiful 1/200 models from Hasegawa. What happened is that I built so many of each type and used quite a few available decals, so until new types or decals came out, was sort of stuck. Well, when Hogan came out with 757s, 737NGs, and A330/340s, it was only the natural thing to start "collecting" these. Of course, I stripped quite a few and used some decals available. Not to fear, since Hasegawa has released their 737NGs, I have resorted to building them. But as for these other types in 1/200 that are not available in model kit form(or decal unavailable), I will purchase the "diecast" version. Same here! I use what's available, and if that means stripping and re-painting push-fit models, that's ok with me! Besides 1:200 airliners I model civil helicopters in all scales and my modelling life's a lot harder on that subject! Edited February 23, 2009 by GeejeeZ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
indydog Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Be gald you're not me. I only buld prop liners and the selection is even smaller! I buy what I can when I can, but I have yet to buy a diecast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iranair777 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Well, personally I've got almost ZERO interest in military jets - modern or otherwise so I'm left with only a small choice of what I can build. +1 I personally hate that they are pro military rather than either both or military. The only military plane I did has been a spitfire from the RAF museum and I still preferred commercial aviation. Also military costs a little bit more to due to the amount of different paints you have. Anyway, I think we should complain about this to main manufactures such as revell and airfix; maybe they will listen and do something about it; maybe even a revell 777? (I can dream :) ) Edited February 24, 2009 by iranair777 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LHRHKG Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I actually gave up building airliners for a number of years mainly due to the lack of time... just when 1/200 scale collectors models started to become popular and so I bought quite a few of those just to add something new to display alongside my built ones And then the prices got higher and higher and I couldn't afford to buy them anymore... so I started "collecting" kits and decal sheets with the hope that one day I will start building again. In 2002 I got back into building kits and never bought another finished model I am a 100% airliner builder... apart from a few military jets I built (or try to build!) when I was very young... and don't intend to build anything military in future. Yes I agree there could be a bigger variety of kits but I must say the last few years I have been very happy with what kits and decal manufacturers have come up with. I only build airlines/airliners from Asia/Far East which limits my choice even more! I have never even thought about building a very nice looking IL-86 in the colours of a Chinese airline straight from the box but I managed it thanks to Revell! And all the aftermarket decals of Asian airlines that have come out in the last few years have given me plenty of choice... much more than I expected OK... so airliners are not big money-makers for the manufacturers but hopefully we will see more new kits and decals. There is the Revell B787 to look forward to. Hopefully Hasegawa will come out with a B777-300ER now that both ANA and JAL have big fleets of the type. Happy modelling to everyone! Dennis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Anyway, I think we should complain about this to main manufactures such as revell and airfix; maybe they will listen and do something about it; maybe even a revell 777? It is, of course, your right to make your feelings known to the manufacturers, but the situation isn't likely to change. Revell are doing some reissues of their airliners from time to time, but the one major thing that's killed off the airline kit hobby is licensing. AMR Corporation demanded an *application* fee from me of $1500 (and we're talking about 1999 here, ten years ago). The application fee was non-refundable. That was just to *apply* for a license to do American Airlines (may they rot in hell) decals. Once I'd applied, then I had to produce my product, incurring all the costs of printing them myself. Once that was done, I could then submit the finished product to AMR's licensing agency for approval. IF they approved it (big IF), then I could proceed with selling them - and (this is the kicker) paying them a flat 25% of GROSS (not net, gross) off the top. That's an extreme example, and not all of them are like that, but the majority are in the business of licensing their corporate image. That's what's killed Minicraft's airliners for the future, and Revell aren't far behind. Some European airlines have some sense left (there are less lawyers in Europe), and will allow them to use their logos, but not many. The manufacturers also charge hefty licensing fees now. Airbus used to actually subsidize Revell's tooling for their products, but no longer. They now demand licensing fees just like McBoeing and Lock-Mart. Every licensing fee that's required eats into potential profits, and in terms of airliner models, it's just not worth it to the kit manufacturers. The die-cast industry is another story. The economics of that are very, very different from plastic kit manufacture. In short, until we get rid of about 75% of the lawyers in the world, the situation isn't going to change. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sky303 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Some of the issue I believe also has to do with licensing/royalties that the airlines want. Sucks the profit right from the project. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vc-10 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Wish they regarded it as free advertising! There is some hope, Revell has announced a 787 for this year, perhaps Boeing's let up slightly on the fees? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iranair777 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 It is, of course, your right to make your feelings known to the manufacturers, but the situation isn't likely to change. Revell are doing some reissues of their airliners from time to time, but the one major thing that's killed off the airline kit hobby is licensing. AMR Corporation demanded an *application* fee from me of $1500 (and we're talking about 1999 here, ten years ago). The application fee was non-refundable. That was just to *apply* for a license to do American Airlines (may they rot in hell) decals. Once I'd applied, then I had to produce my product, incurring all the costs of printing them myself. Once that was done, I could then submit the finished product to AMR's licensing agency for approval. IF they approved it (big IF), then I could proceed with selling them - and (this is the kicker) paying them a flat 25% of GROSS (not net, gross) off the top.That's an extreme example, and not all of them are like that, but the majority are in the business of licensing their corporate image. That's what's killed Minicraft's airliners for the future, and Revell aren't far behind. Some European airlines have some sense left (there are less lawyers in Europe), and will allow them to use their logos, but not many. The manufacturers also charge hefty licensing fees now. Airbus used to actually subsidize Revell's tooling for their products, but no longer. They now demand licensing fees just like McBoeing and Lock-Mart. Every licensing fee that's required eats into potential profits, and in terms of airliner models, it's just not worth it to the kit manufacturers. The die-cast industry is another story. The economics of that are very, very different from plastic kit manufacture. In short, until we get rid of about 75% of the lawyers in the world, the situation isn't going to change. J Thats shocking! instead of them paying us a bit for advertising, they are charging us? <_< Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marxy Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 If Hogan or InFlight can make a load of different aircraft, why cany revell? I mean, let's say that Hogan charge about $35 which is for a finished model in a livery which I assume includes some fee to a licensing department for certain airlines. Revell could charge us $40 and I'm sure people would buy the mould! Add to that the large number of airlines which we can decal our models up with and I'm pretty sure the market IS there. . . . . Maybe the issue is the size (not giving them a reason to carry on starving our airliner desires) I mean, how many 1/144 A330s can you put on a shelf? (answers on a postcard to the normal address - prizes given for photos!) Arik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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