Thomas Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 This picture which was published in the March 1968 issue of the Naval Aviation Times has a caption where it is said that it´s a A-4C Skyhawk. The caption on Wikipedia (here the link is from) says it´s a A-4B Skyhawk. So, which model is it? The attachment of the launcher rail is different to what is included in the Haasegawa Skyhawk kits. Is this kind attachment available elsewhere? Are there decals for this aircraft available? Thanks, Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) According to skyhawk.org, VA-22 flew the A-4B between 60 and 61, then transitioned to the A-4C until 68, when they got A-4Fs....that pic is defintely not a F, so my money is on A-4C Edited November 29, 2009 by paul.nortness Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El pibe vitina Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) Seems to be a C. The Sidewinder rail is the early type, Included in Hobbycraft A4 C. Cya! Edited November 29, 2009 by El pibe vitina Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Another thing to note.....that modex on the nose....very unusual for an attack aircraft. Typically an aircraft in VA-22 would be 3 or 4 hundreds (301, 402, etc) That leads me to believe this aircraft may be from a special detachement? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) This is the caption to the picture on Wikipedia: A Douglas A-4B Skyhawk from detachment R of attack squadron VA-22 Fighting Redcocks armed with an AIM-9B Sidewinder air-to-air missile, in 1963. The VA-22 Det. R was assigned to Anti-Submarine Carrier Air Group 53 (CVSG-53) for a deployment to the Western Pacific from 4 June to 3 December 1963 aboard the U.S. anti-submarine aircraft carrier USS Kearsarge (CVS-33). Full link The picture caption in the Navy Time states: Deadly A-4C, loaded with missiles, flies on a CAP mission from a carrier. Each bomb painted on the air intake denotes a bombing mission over Vietnam. Although the Skyhawk is best known for its ordnance-carrying capabilities as a light attack bomber in CVA´s, it is also used as a defensive weapon and for close support of troops in the combat zone. Thomas Edited November 29, 2009 by Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 So we have the special modex, the mission markings and the year. So, it seems to be a -C model, but where? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
El pibe vitina Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Take a look: http://www.skyhawk.org/5e/g147669/html/147681d.htm From: http://www.skyhawk.org/4e/mag15/mag15p.htm Cya. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Many thanks! So this is a A-4C, BuNo.147681, on a mission in 1965. Seems, no decals are available.... Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 there were decals in 1/72 scale of H&MS-15's A-4's from Microscale,,,,I don't know of any in 1/48 for for nose numbers 81 to 84 on that detachment part of the confusion is that Wiki shows a "VMA-22" (really H&MS-15) bird and calls it a VA-22 bird in the caption,,,,,that Det R scheme for VA-22 on the Kearsarge was a totally different scheme,,,,,those had a Huge black and red gamecock on the fuselage, almost as tall as could fit on the intake sides, and NS tail codes with a large fin flash if you could find the old MS sheet (#72-77), you could resize it for 1/48,,,,the black would be easy, and maybe resize the Redcock and use it as a frisket stencil,,,,,Fanny Hill is the only one of the four aircraft I've seen decals for in those days, the N was used as Det letters on the Hornet, and the R was the Det letter for Kearsarge,,,,,,,,on the Hornet H&MS-15 ("VMA-22") A-4C's kept their YV tail codes,,,,,and on the Kearsarge the real VA-22 A-4B Det had the CVSG's NS code (VA-22 had A-4C's on their "regular" deployments, and the B for the Det deployment only) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 that Det R scheme for VA-22 on the Kearsarge was a totally different scheme,,,,,those had a Huge black and red gamecock on the fuselage, almost as tall as could fit on the intake sides, and NS tail codes with a large fin flash Like this..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 yep, that's the one, and in that shot it's easy to see it's a B model,,,,,,,glad to see you post that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Like this..... For this scheme there are Super Scale decals in 1/48 available... Unfortunally not for the four A-4C´s including Fanny Hill.... Was it a rare picture that Skyhawks carried Sidewinders? This is the only picture of early Skyhawks with Sidewinders I know of. Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
romang Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hey there Maybe you' ll find this interessting too?! http://www.gonavy.jp/CV-CV12f.html Regards Roman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 For this scheme there are Super Scale decals in 1/48 available...Unfortunally not for the four A-4C´s including Fanny Hill.... Was it a rare picture that Skyhawks carried Sidewinders? This is the only picture of early Skyhawks with Sidewinders I know of. Thomas The small deck, ASW carriers used AIM-9 equipped Skyhawks for air defense in the early 1960s. Regards, Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 The small deck, ASW carriers used AIM-9 equipped Skyhawks for air defense in the early 1960s.Regards, Murph @romang: Thanks for the link! And now one more question from one who has absolutely no knowledge on US Navy: What carriers were small deck ASW carriers? That would make it maybe easier to find pics and decals. Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Check Post #622 here: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthrea...087&page=21 to see another pic of an A-4 with Sidewinders. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 @romang: Thanks for the link!And now one more question from one who has absolutely no knowledge on US Navy: What carriers were small deck ASW carriers? That would make it maybe easier to find pics and decals. Thomas These were the 27 Charlie class carrier. Known to most of us the Essex class carrier. Some (quite a few actually) were converted to anti-submarine role and redesigated as CVS's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 27 Alpha angled deck CVS's in the late fifties to late sixties CVS-9 Essex CVS-10 Yorktown CVS-12 Hornet CVS-15 Randolph CVS-18 Wasp CVS-20 Bennington CVS-33 Kearsarge 27 Charlie's were CVA's at first, then some were reclassed as CVS during the Sixties CVA/CVS-11 Intrepid CVA/CVS-14 Ticonderoga CVA/CVS-38 Shangri La (classed as CVS on last cruise, but still operated a CVA wing) CVS-39 Lake Champlain was a straight deck that was not converted if you look at the ship names on GoNavy, you will see the deployments with the A-4 Dets on Skyhawk org you can find good pics of the Sidewinder equipped Dets, once you know all the squadrons with those Dets Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Many many thanks! There will be some research done the holidays... Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm thinking (altho you guys have pretty much established that already) that it's a C based on that outer wing pylon that the AIM-9 is mounted on. IIRC the A-4B had the inner and centerline pylons only and one of the distinguishing features of the C-model (vs the was those outer pylons in addition to the other pylons on the B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm thinking (altho you guys have pretty much established that already) that it's a C based on that outer wing pylon that the AIM-9 is mounted on. IIRC the A-4B had the inner and centerline pylons only and one of the distinguishing features of the C-model (vs the was those outer pylons in addition to the other pylons on the B. It was the E that first had 5 hardpoints - the C version always had 3, even when they were upgraded to the L configuration. It's just the nature of images of the Skyhawk to be confusing as to which pylons are visible. For example, sometimes TA-4J's had 3 pylons and sometimes they had 5, and it can be difficult to tell which a particular bird has, depending on the angle of the photo. I actually delayed gluing together the wings of my Hasegawa TA-4J for a month because I kept going back and forth on how many pylon holes I should drill out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 One note, pylons are removable, they are not permanently fixed to the aircraft. For the A-4 the pylons could be easily removed if they where not needed, would save a couple of hundred pounds in weight, and drag. As for the pylons on the C and E as Spejic stated, the C had three, the E had five. Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Ah, thanks for the correction. Boy, don't I feel silly now… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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